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Junior Member
 
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I wonder if "going green" is a real concern to those who are struggling to make a living (or even struggling to have a side line) as a farmer?
Certainly from a marketing point of view, it behooves every producer to buy into the current hype, but when it comes down to day to day, how far can you really go?
We (my wife and I) live in a rural area and farmers are my neighbors (I am currently living an interesting life having to breathe in the wonderful aroma of liguid manure being dispursed over the fields of the neighboring field..no grudges...but it's difficult to breath and food doesn't taste quite the same!)
We are also a huge fans of a neighboring farm store that supplys us with any number for fresh grown produce not to mention that they are also one of the few real cider mills left in the area. We cherish them!
They strive to be organic and to provide "locally grown" produce (some comes from as much as a hnudred miles away). But they are there for us and are involved in local farmers markets as well as CSA. That's what we like.
As for "going green", it's too funny to even think about, but they have been "green" from the beginning. They are farmers.
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Senior Member
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I think it is slow because it is a "preaching to the choir" sort of thing. I'm a conventional farmer, but even on the big farm in the family with 1000+ cows we are darn near organic because it just makes sense. We have plenty of manure (organic matter) so our fertilizer needs are met, and so it comes down to animal health...if you could use antibiotics and other meds on the cows, we would be organic dairy farmers. But when you have cows for as long as we do, and the cost is 2K per cow...well you have to get them healthy and not just cross your fingers.
As for the "buy local movement", it is like that here too. A local CSA Manager told me he has to sell in Portland 100 miles away because he cannot get the price he needs to compete locally. The reason is simple...the average acreage here per home is 80 acres, so there is plenty room for people to grow their own gardens...and they do. To persuade people to buy locally, the price has to be at a level that is enough to make a profit, yet low enough so that it is not really worth people's time to grow it themselves. A tough gig indeed.
My opinion on buy local is pretty simple...I am all for it, but it should not be an overly expensive option. I got into an online argument with a neighbor of mine because as she said, "she was not going to apologize for having successful marketing", myself I wholeheartedly disagree. I think if a local producer must charge far more then what the area can support...then their inputs are out of line. I am not going to fleece my neighbors...I am going to produce local lamb at the lowest prices I can because that is what a good farmer does...
I refuse to simply hide underneath the buy local slogan and fleece my neighbors because I won't lower my cost of doing business...that is just not right. Some of the greatest farming innovations have come about because farmers decided to look at their inputs and reduce them anyway, and every way they can. If farms must sell "locally produced" products over 100 miles away, then I don't think they are being creative enough.
Grass fed livestock
Organic
Naturally grown
CSA's
Rotational Grazing
These are all great examples or techniques and methods that enable the small farmer to produce a product that can get enough income that overcomes the economy of scale that larger farms have. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and we need far more of these ideas and methods.
I see agri-forestry, no-fuel farming, and low carbon farming as future farming techniques that will further enable the small farmer to compete.
But the weak link is that these are marketing issues. So as more people join in on these techniques, or the economy goes south...well the marketing is going to drop. In my state I have seen farmers that failed to put away money for the lean years and have become dependent on high niche market prices. Now that the market has sagged, so have prices and some farms literally have gone under because of it. Others are looking for GOV subsidies to bring them through.
The point here is, I think small farmers can use the ability to adapt and change quickly to their advantage, but its going to take creativity. I don't think relying on "green" is going to cut it. As is we are at 10% unemployment which means 1 out of 10 people in this country do not have jobs...it is only a matter of time before the idea of "get people back to work" trumps green issues.
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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Senior Member
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Last Login: Today @ 8:55:34 AM
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Maine is pretty unique...we have the highest organic food per capita in the USA. That means the citizens of this state have an incredible access to organic food, and I can find an organic alternative for just about everything in our grocery store...and yes much of it is locally produced.
Now since 2002 organic produce has risen 100%. That is a 700% increase in 7 years which is amazing.
So how does that compare to conventional farming? Well in 2009 only 3% was organic, the other 97% was conventional. Even if you assume the current rate of 100% growth is going to continue, it will take a decade or more for organic to trump conventional, and with naturally grown hitting the organic markets hard...along with 1 out of 10 people unemployed...well I don't see organic or green being all that lucrative in the short term.
To answer your question though...I simply explain to potential customers what I do, how I raise my lambs and why, and I have never had anyone not buy a lamb because of something I said. It makes sense to me, and it makes sense to them, and with more people asking for lamb then what I currently have...it is silly for me to chase a "more green" or "organic" market that I don't really need. I keep my inputs low, sell under the naturally raised and grass fed only banner and do just fine.
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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Average Member
Group: Banned Members
Last Login: 11/1/2009 6:18:12 AM
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I wonder if "going green" is a real concern to those who are struggling to make a living (or even struggling to have a side line) as a farmer?
Certainly from a marketing point of view, it behooves every producer to buy into the current hype, but when it comes down to day to day, how far can you really go..
no it's not a concern at all. It's more costly to "go green" (officially) and become a certified organic farmer. It takes more work to do it and you produce less and in the end, the middlemen still have the upper hand.
Going Green from a consumer point of view has gone less main stream. The masses have been quick to catch on that there is no justification for the higher price and if they can do there own investigating, they can find what they want for far less money. The very advertising that pushes green has been it's downfall. The Go Local stuff has convinced people to eat local foods BUT this means consumers with some networking skills and a little road trip, can find who or what they want without the sticker price.
I still can say on the record that some CSA's and other organic farms are just putting the screws to whoever is going to bite the hook dropped in the water. Selling produce they never grew or livestock that they picked up at the cattle auction barn and have not raised them self. BUT hey...there are con men everyplace.
mean wile it's been easier to just...be..I've been green all my life.. but we called it' poverty. Even the rich who grew up here (not the newcomers) live like they are poor. locals drive the same old car forever, have a garden, all this stuff was done because you wanted to save money...not show off or be earthy.
So if people ask me, Do you use BST ?...I answer honestly, "why no I don't" or should they ask, "do you use chemicals on your garden?... "un ho I don't...."
I'm not looking to "be green" I'm just not paying for that stuff because the return on investment cannot justify the expense. When/if I sell, I ask what they are willing to pay, then they come out...look things over, have some tea and cookies on the porch and that is that.
To BE certified or to intensionally be Green normally requires an investment or finding other green products. Seldom do you see "green" tied to cost effective ideas like a chicken Garden or other frugal ideas.
But I'm not looking to be green, have a label or any such thing.
I just am.
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Average Member
Group: Banned Members
Last Login: 11/1/2009 6:18:12 AM
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I don't think people get back to work is a big deal now. why do it when you can lay around on your fanny and collect a check? and who the heck would want to farm after working in an office all day?
LOL..I bet ya anything if the bean counters who lost a job on wall street came out here, they would go running back to there high rise after a week of 16 hour days in the heat, rain, cold and smell of a real farm.
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Senior Member
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Last Login: Today @ 8:55:34 AM
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Who would give up an office job for farming???
Me for one. I honest to goodness had an cushy office job, official title was Safety Coordinator for a global railroad and I had all the perks that went with that upper-level job. $81K a year salary, answered to the Vice President directly and had a corner office in a mid-rise with a nice window and a secretary that did everything should I need it. Company credit card with no limit, since I was safety there really was no budget on that, and I even had a rental car 24/7/365 days a year.
I walked around the office never believing in 5 years I had acceded so high from a small farm 2240 miles back east...It was alright...but it was not me. When I got divorced I told everyone I had to go home, but the truth was I wanted to go home.
My signature says it all. I don't think I am a hick though I was certainly dyed in the wool literally I guess, but I firmly believe that it truly is the farmer that is the richest man of all. Now I make a third of what I did annually, raise sheep, cows and even foster kids on this farm and truly have the life most people dream of.
The funny thing is, my Great-Grandfather of 1830-1909 did the same sort of thing...chasing the gold in San Fransisco and trekking all over the nation, but he too went home...and farmed and realized that is indeed what we were meant to do. It's just in the DNA.
You can take the farmer off the farm, but you will never get the farmer out of him. Truer words have never been spoken.
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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Average Member
Group: Banned Members
Last Login: 11/1/2009 6:18:12 AM
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No man, we don't count... you already knew what it was....and went back.
I mean the other people. The man ans woman who move to the sticks to get a taste of fresh air and what they presume to be the life and then learn later on that it's real work. In many ways, it's like opening a restaurant, with no prior experience after having a regular job.
yea it sounds like fun, until the unexpected things come up and mess with the dream.
You and I both knew what was what. We didn't start from 0.
As for the Hick part, eh.. I think it's all relative. For example. Here, so close to the Woolrich HQ, Woolrich is for poor folks. Why? factory seconds. The same is true with Tommy HillFiger in Elmira NY Both companies dump there stuff here and in many cases people know someone who can get them a nice coat for $3 bucks.
I have Woolrich on all the time. When I work out of town and I have one a pair of pants that, in the catalog is $125, but at home is $25....people look at me diffract. When I Built stone walls in NYC. The people thought I was some sort of rural God. They wanted to hear stories from back here in poodunk. But here no one cares.
it's all relative.
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