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New Member
 
Group: Banned Members
Last Login: 11/15/2009 9:03:36 PM
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I saw the spot on this site. 350 million given away and that's a good thing?
why not spend that money to break up the price fixing that is going on with the big buyers? and middle men? I'm 100% capitalist! but what's going on is anti free market. They got to the top.. the mile stone of building a big business would be to say the only people who can fight you fair would be the government.
There is no Free Market in dairy.
Second why are we so flipping happy for a hand out? I know why don't you just run down the street boasting about being on well fair! These people know to fish...farmers could make a living if people would just back off and let them. But we are so worried about everyone getting an almost free meal, that we let these large companies rule the markeet.
Recently New England Amish wanted to get out of there co-opp and open there own plant. The inspecter was over heard to say to another,
"if they do we'll find so many infractions we'll shut them down"
The case is being built at this moment.
Why the spin? why the happy angle? IT's a freaking hand out! Not a way out.
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Average Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 6:17:56 PM
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| But is it even a hand out? Whose paying for it? We are the (tax payers). I just read that article too and I just don't see any of the money coming down here "to help." Well maybe a little because it going to the dairy industry and not beef it's another Hurricane "K" helping hand.
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New Member
Group: Banned Members
Last Login: 11/15/2009 9:03:36 PM
Posts: 86,
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I'm so glad the government felt it was there right to take from us what we earned so they could give it back to us..
Yes, it's a hand out! some of that money was taken from non-farmers
and who will get it? not the poorest of the poor...no.. surely some "hobby farmers" who have a large business and have a farm for the tax write off/hobby business will take some of that money because they are connected. My business partners take advantage of such things I won't I'm proud to make enough that I pay taxes.
I don't like paying taxes but if I must then I'm glad that I'm not in that poor baby category were I'm rolling pennies for gas. This farm makes no money.. that's no secret. BUT.. I DO.
I am all about charity. I love to do pig roasts or collect coins for causes. But people give freely to those causes. If you don't back a cause then don't give.. no biggy.
but to have someone take your money unfreely and then tell them that it's theres if they want it back, after they judge what it should be used for AND take a cut..
that's BULL
open the markets and you won't need to do this. but then your representatives will be out of a job.
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Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 7:20:04 PM
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| I dont think you understand, The government gives to the farmers because if the gov allowed free market then all the farmers would be claiming welfare. All the food would be imported from places where farmers dont earn as much as the farmers here. The only way the farmers remain in business is because the Gov protects them from free market.
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Senior Member
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Last Login: Today @ 8:55:34 AM
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I agree with you WOS...I am not that up on what exactly is going to happen to the money, but even if they did spread the 350 million dollars around evenly, spread over 60,000 dairy farmers in this country, that would mean each farm gets a whopping $5833...hold me back from my enjoyment huh, we are only losing $42,000 a month on the big dairy farm!! In other words, it will not even begin to put a band aid on that hemorrhage.
Still milk prices are up this week so its really just the market finally correcting itself. If the Gov just stepped aside and let the free market system work, instead of trying to muck it up by setting the price, everyone would be a lot better. I mean we are talking about the most perfect food here...its what all mammals are started upon in life.
That is why I disagree wholeheartedly with you BB...the Gov is not afraid that the free market price would tank and leave the farmers starving, they know the price would rise. And historically speaking, even with high milk prices, people buy it. It is a major staple of the American diet...and american's see what the issue really is here too...not the farmers getting the money, but the retail outlets raking in the cash.
At this point the dairy industry does not have much to lose by going to a free market system. The Gov's set price has only hurt us, so let the industry itself sort out its problems. Everything else has been deregulated why not agriculture...dairy farming in particular?
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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Junior Member
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Last Login: Today @ 7:20:04 PM
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| You miss my point. When I worked in China, in a large industrial city about 100 miles south of Beijing, I shopped at a "supermarket" and, for some unknown reason, I remember a 1kg (2.2#) bag of corn flour was the equivelent of 10 cents (US) Add another 10 cents to improve quality assurance = 20 cents A shipping container China to US = $2000. Weight of flour in said shipping container = 40,000# Flour in US = $0.20 + 2000/40000 = 25 cents for 2.2 pound of flour. Like I said the Gov protects farmers from free market.
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Senior Member
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We are the bread basket of the world (along with Canada) so even though China could send food here, there is enough of an export trade, and a demand for our food in nations like Russia, the African nations and other places to squelch what little bit China would erode into our markets. Even then with their own ballooning population its questionable if they will export it.
In 2049 they predict the world population will no longer be able to be supported by agriculture. With each passing year the value of food will not diminish, it will increase. Some products such as wheat are being eroded by Australia which is abandoning its sheep farms for more profitable wheat, rye and other cereal grains. For me this was great because I sell lamb...a product that drives 50% from imports. This year though a major drought kicked them in the hiney making them question converting thousand upon thousand acres of former sheep ground into wheat and other cereal grain ground.
But of course all this talk is about commodities that are already on the free trade system. Milk is not, and being such a perishable commodity with such a short shelf life, transportation is a huge issue. Its not like you can freeze it and ship it in blocks, or in shipping containers. You could not even pump it into tankers and ship it over here. Keeping it cool and bacteria free would be such a costly issue...and time sensitive, that local is the only practical way to go. This is why they control the price of milk...because they know the local farmers would dominate the market if they were actually allowed too.
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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New Member
Group: Banned Members
Last Login: 11/15/2009 9:03:36 PM
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right brit..that's why Organic, local, green food or... well let's be real, well marketed food brings the price it does.
actually you are the one being protected from a free market. The romans called it "Bread and Circus". Cheep food and entertainment keeps the people content and stupid so they don't react or become to involved in things.
Can you imagine what would happen if we farmers could finally get it together and kick the masses around like oil companies do? Do you know anyone who can live without food? We are the producers you are consumers. If we all started dumping tanks and holding grain in the bin you'd be begging us for food. NOT the other way round.
China is importing beans like mad... know why? they can't grow enough!
and we are importing dairy from them now that's a part of the reason prices are so messed up. But it keeps China happy so we do it.
well fair???? no offence but.....are you high brit?? I have seen people on well fair and ya know what..they are fat, they don't work or pay for anything and they vote for whoever will give them a freaking free ride!
farmers work there *** off and get $5,000 from the fed?
Do you understand that a milk truck represents $3,000 in lost to farmers!
Well fair bums lay around and don't even need to take a urine test to get free money. but farmers...they only count for 1% of the vote. so they get this crap. They are kept at a level of hardly hang'n on...
Most of that "help" in truth is given to people who have other companies and a farm for a write off. They are well connected and willing to work the system....sort of like the "shovel ready jobs" that go to put sidewalks and new streets in the areas were congressmen own town homes ect.
this money is like fixing a leak in your tire every week when your driveway is left full of nails.
a free market, COOL labeling of food and better understanding of our food would fix the issue rather than fixed prices and cheep food to keep all the peasants quiet and content.
if people want to write about hobby farming then keep it to hobby farming but keep your type'n fingers off farming for a living.
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Junior Member
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| I hear what both of you are saying , again and again. Many words to say very little etc etc. The term "America is the bread basket of the world" refers to the fact that for some reason (I wonder what that is??) US farmers grow cereal crops and more cereal crops and more and more etc etc. Presumably someone pays you guys to grow creeal crops that nobody wants. What I really dont understand is if you are continually making a loss all the time why on earth do you not do something that you can make a living from. Maybe hand the keys of your farms over to a hobby farmer that will be able to make a bit of money from the land?? My ancesters came from an Island between Ireland and Scotland and they were sheep farmers for generations and generations, in all likelyhood back to pre Roman times. About four hundred years ago they decided that sheep farming was not all it was cracked up to be and evolved into other trades and industries........ Somewhere along the line the sheep farmers decendants managed to marry into Scottish nobility, this is a little anecdote to illustrate that farmers can change there ways, with a little effort. And Drawbar before you jump onto the "America kicked britains ***" campaign again please remember that my Scottish ancesters fought and lost to England in the Jacobite revolution, several were hung, drawn and quartered in public displays for being "traitors to the realm". What I am saying is we all have a storey to tell about oppression but most of us adapt and change, hopefully for the better...Try it guys.
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Senior Member
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It was a little different 400 years ago when you simply slaughtered your sheep and never replaced them and instead retreated in defeat to industry, or another commodity. Today farms like ours have a lot of money invested in equipment and barns that are set up for a specific commodity like milk. The farmers in the mid-west have the same problem, you just cannot change overnight like you did 400 years ago...200 years ago or even 50 years ago...just too much at stake.
We have farmed around hobby farmers for years, and in some instances have enjoyed the experience and worked well with them, but in the majority of the cases they left behind unfarmable fields and pure messes. The point here is, WE ARE STILL FARMING, its the majority of the homesteaders and Hobby farmers WHO ARE NOT. That is why the USDA only lends money to farmers with at least 3 years experience...they know they have the grit to stick around.
But I will confess it sounds like I complain a lot, the truth is I love farming, love the opportunities it gives me and the complete freedom, I just don't think it is fair to have the majority of farm markets open to free trade while the dairy industry is so hemmed up by regulation. If the corn, wheat and barley producers can operate on the free market system, why shouldn't we be able to? That way when ethanol drives up the price of corn, and with it our grain prices to feed our cows, we can match the higher input with our higher milk prices.
As for the commodity's grown, this is something I have preached about for quite awhile...you have to match the product to the farm and not the other way around. They grow wheat in west Washington state because its arid and wheat grows in that kind of climate quite well. In the mid west they grow corn because the lake effect allows a product that needs a lot of moisture to grow...to grow, and up here where it is cold, well dairy cows do well since the Holstein prefers a temp of 28º. A lot of people have tried to buck these trends, and may do well for awhile, but the truth is, once the newness of the product becomes old, or has a saturated market, the farms can not operate at less than insane prices. Soon they fold up. That is when the bigger farms gobble up the little farms, the hobby farms and the homesteads if the acreage is sufficient.
As for the sheep, for this area what I am doing is quite profound. You don't find many commercial sheep farms here...they have been on the decline since 1947 in Maine. But I am convinced, the market is here on the east coast (plenty of middle easterners now who favor lamb in their diets), and the cold climate bodes well for the sheep. Its been an uphill battle, but in one year I see inroads in bring sheep back to Maine. Not just in my flock...oh no...for many farmers. They have a lot going for them and I am trying new things to get the hurdles for other farmers down.
As for these new things, I think if you read the posts here you will find I am bucking many myths about sheep and livestock. I'm using living barns, I'm feed unconventional feeds like haylage and corn silage, and I'm free ranging my sheep (no fences) to reduce inputs, and even using non-traditional sheep guardian animals like cattle to help drive away predators. All these things I have done successfully and done so at a profit in the first year of operation...there are not many farms, hobby farms or commercial farms alike that can say that.
Make tomorrow a better day then today, that is the constant goal of the American Farmer.
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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