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NTRotty...I agree with you. I look back on my sheep endeavor and see plenty of mistakes and a few successes. But as I look back, its those mistakes and challenges that have also made it fun...man have I learned a lot.
I post a lot on here and read questions of others and just want to scream, "don't do that, it is such a mistake", but the thing is, like having kids, its making those mistakes that help them learn too. I guess it is a very fine line...
One one side I have seen so many people come to my town, make all the same mistakes we all do, fail miserable, put their place up for sale and move on. I see those people and think "I should have stepped in and helped them." Yet if I was to do that I also run the risk of doing that to someone who may actually thread the needle, get through all the novice mistakes and start a new farm family in town. The help I give them may not be help at all, but actually keep them from some niche market that sets them apart or makes them profitable.
I think I give a lot of sound advice, its just it can kind of kill the discussion on here because it doesn't give a place for people to sort out their ideas. For instance awhile ago a guy mentioned how happy he was at putting fence posts in with a post hole auger on back of his tractor. He was euphoric, but as Britboy pointed out, they don't work very well in clay soil, WOS mentioned hitting ledge and snapping bits, and I know next year he will be stuffing them back in the holes because the frost will heave posts in drilled holes, right out of the ground. Better to drive posts into the soil rather them compact them. Now that is experience at play, but I am sure it tempered the guys enthusiasm at using a post hole auger to put fence posts in.
So what do you do...stay mum and let others blindly go out and buy equipment that does not work that well, or help keep their checking account fatter and let them now of better, l;less expensive options at fencing? As I said, it is a fine line!
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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I would agree.
even in business, the mistakes are my own and the troubles are mine as well. This is the cost of saying that the success was 90% mine.
Can't get that from just give'n up.
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| Drawbar, I think the fence post thing is very area dependant. We have posts that were placed using augers and old fashioned clamshell diggers 10 to 30 years ago all over our place and never had any problems besides digging the initial hole in the first place. I can't imagine driving telephone pole posts down 4 feet or so using a front end loader here. In many places th eclay is way too hard. We are in Texas so the whole concept of frost heave is alien though. Up north it is probably much more of a problem.
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| I think a lot is coming down to definitions. Some people view a farm as a place in the country. I think of a farm as more of a use for land. Here is how I personally define some of the words: Farm - Produces food (animals or crops) primarily for consumption by others. Hobby Farm - A farm run as a second job for the income earners. This can get tricky if only one spouse is working outside the farm. I feel if the other spouse is doing a full time day working the farm, then it is probably more than a hobby farm. Homestead - Place in the country where you produce food primarily for your own family. Some food may be sold to others, but it is not the primary purpose of the agricultural activities. Tax Dodge Farm - Agricultural operation intended to generate loses either real or on paper to reduce income taxes from other income.
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Starting Member
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| as always... it comes down to definitions
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Starting Member
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| Well defined Paul. I am from N.Tex also, and some things are very "regional" in their application. We want hair sheep, partly because of the climate and partly because we are not interested in a shearing operation of any size. Same with the cattle we wish to raise, probably Dexters, but whatever breed the herd will be small. Homestead is the definition I like for our plan with hobby farm and tax dodge a close second/third.
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Most of us who are "retiring to a hobby farm" as pointed out so well in NealaMadhouse's post are not looking to become full time farmers. Most of us will have a decent nest egg and are really just looking for a retirement that has some challenges and rewards (albiet not monetary). should we have some success in selling something to others that we take pride in, that's all for the better. My pre-retirement hobby farm didn't work out to well, but I still have hopes for whent he real retirement comes (soon).
I for one very much appreciate those of you who are full time farmers and are willing to provide a lot of insight. (DB and WOS, you are both valuable players here!). Don't give up on us please.
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so this is still a hot topic of chat between my friends and I. But i'm not pointing to anyone in particular on this site.. just bring'n up the subject for more banter.
We (my friends) were talking about tiff's comment and how so many only desire to retire to a "hobby farm" 12 chickens and a goat perhaps, or a large garden and some fruit trees.
So often in life we are driven by the goal on the other horizon and...as my fellows here at home have seen... the "retired" person in question lives out the dream for a season or two, and then fizzles out. It seems that many are driven by the goal.
"when I get out of this place I'm going to do _________".
then when they have that fish on the wall, they desire the next goal, time with the grand kids or old friends...travel and things that take up more time from the "hobby"
after a time, all that is left over for many of these dreamers is a mail box painted like a cow and a "welcome to our farm" sign hanging on the door.
It's great to dream, it keeps people going. however my one worry is that when someone buys a chunk of farm land, builds a home and starts down this road, they take away from the land once used to feed our nation.
It is not BAD or Wicked...it's not evil or cruel....but sadly it's a fact that those who don't stick with it have a larger effect than they understand and they do kill just a small bit of the larger picture they them selves wanted to mimic in retirement.
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| WOS, There is still something you are missing. While what you say might be true of some retirees, many of our friends with this same dream are not buying "farm land". They are re-starting farms in land where farming has long since been abandoned. In fact, the property we bought hasn't been farmed since the early 1900s. The logging company bought it at a tax auction, cut the timber and left it in a total mess. The neighbors there think we are crazy to want to farm it, not because it isn't good land, but because they think it is too much work. They'd rather go to Walmart and buy their food, often with their government-issued food stamps. I grew up on a farm, but left when my grandmother died and it was sold and split. Our dream is to bring farming back into our family at some level. Even if we only have a small self-sustaining farm with a modest income, our grandchildren will have the opportunity to be exposed to the lifestyle. Also, I want to pass down all the wisdom and knowledge that I gained from my grandparents, otherwise it is lost forever. We are not naive enough to think that this will make them turn into farmers. Even so, we want them to have an appreciation of what it takes to produce your own food, and share the sense of accomplishment you get when you plant or raise something. Also, as a younger person I can see where you might question the desire to "retire" to work really hard...but trust me, life looks a whole lot different in the rear view mirror than it does coming from the windshield! D.
M. and D.
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your comment about my age is far from the truth. and I didn't start all these businesses by acting like I was 21 when I was 21. but that's nothing you would know since this is a forum and not the local coffee shop.
your idea is admerable and if you do it great, you are in the minority. what may be going on in your area would also be the minority.
I have seen this concept in action many times. Many don't want to rebuild something someone other person had, but start a new. It was there dream and they want to build what they had in mind.
The sustainable comment is in my thinking a great idea, but not possible.
It's sounds great, but it's not possible.
now I'd also say that your desire for the young people is great.. wonderful, If you get it done YEA! But many people don't. The point is this.
many have the desire to make jack and jill see things, but they, for some reason never make it work. For a lack of interest or time. focus or money..whatever. But from my point of view. when people come out here to the sticks they talk about these dreams and in 2 years..it's gone.
Another thing from my point of view in the influence of other friends. The people who keep sending pictures to your wife from Rome or just there grandson's house in the Keys. And the idea that having 3 goats to milk each day is not as great as it was.
One more point on children.
wile it's great that people have a desire to show there children things they knew growing up, the fact is that it's not the same. Draw may help me put this into light...but there is a quality when it's "for real". When it's not
grandpa saying, "this is how I gardened" but.. Jr going out to the garden because it's for real and the family will need to eat what's in that garden.
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