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ozark_jewels (10/24/2009)
As for silage, we use it for our dairy cows but NEVER for my goats. Goats are highly susceptable to any form of mold and it is very hard to find even the best silage with no mold in it at all.
I heard this before as well, and if you think goats are susceptible to Listerosis sheep are ten times more sensitive...or so they say. But here is the thing, its one of those myths that endure because everyone passes it along and no one really tries it. Up in Canada grass and corn silage is used a lot to winter feed sheep and goats with no ill effects.
Five years ago we stopped haying on the farm. Naturally I rely on the big dairy farm to put up feed for my sheep so I have no choice but to feed corn silage and grass silage. I thought it might be a big issue and so I employed a sheep nutritionist. Together we did some forage testing and ultimately decided a 40% mix of corn silage, along with a 60% mixture of grass silage is ideal for the sheep. Because of the corn content, and because the silage chopper has a corn cracker in the processing head, there is no need for grain, but I do add in a mineral mix that is custom designed to the feed. This accounts for the higher and lower trace elements that is in the soil where the feed is grown. (loose mineral mixes are merely based on national averages, the stuff I use is optimized for the feed generated here).
But the long and short of it is this; I have never had a problem feeding sheep haylage or corn silage. Neither have the production sheep farmers in Canada. Its pretty much common sense, if you feed moldy anything, you are not being a very good farmer and asking for trouble.
There are two things one has to watch out for when feeding livestock silages. The first is that it changes the taste of the meat. You should stop feeding silages and switch to hay 30 days before slaughter if you care about quality taste.
The second issue is that lambs and kids cannot process silage. With such small stomachs and huge energy demands, the high moisture in the silage means they can be stuffed to the brim and yet die of starvation...they physically cannot get enough dry matter into those small stomachs. On my farm this means I am forced to buy hay for the lambs, but fortunately they don't eat much so its not a financial drain on me.
You can feed silages just fine to sheep and goats, you just got to know what you are doing. Hay is easier to deal with, but its also less palatable and has less nutrition in it then grass silage or corn silage. Its also expensive. TMR's are intensive, but the animals do better on it.
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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You make a good point on non-working livestock. Coming from 35 years of productive farming sometimes I forget that people have pets. Its just not something we have ever done. If they are on the farm, they had better earn their keep. I have a hard time thinking of livestock as anything other then production animals sometimes so perhaps you are right in graining up pets.
I think another reason why we differ though is our repective states. Missuri is quite warm compared to Maine and probably doesn't get down to -30 and -40 below (F) in the winter. Here we have to adjust our feed according to the weather. I have always adjusted my feed rates by temperature using the rule:
For every 1º below 32º add 1% to the feeding amounts.
So if the temp drops to say 22º, I give my sheep a 122% feeding. So based on a 200 pound ewe, and feeding at 4% body weight, that would mean a normal feed rate of 8 pounds of dry matter per day above 32º, and at 20º, I would give the sheep 10 pounds of dry matter per day.
I assume in Missouri that is where you would stop, but in Maine where -20 f is not uncommon, I have to really bump my feed rates up. I mean at that temp I need to feed 154% of my normal above 32º feeding. That equates to 12½ pounds of dry matter intake. The problem is, that is asking an awful lot from a sheep to eat. They do have to sleep, chew cud, etc so rumen size really comes into play.
So if they cannot pack enough hay into their rumen, certainly grass silage isn't able to pull it off either...too much moisture content. So one would assume corn silage would not work either, but they would be wrong. That is because corn has lots of starches and sugars in it. The rumen has so much flora that sugars are processed in seconds and starches in minutes where as protein takes hours. So what you have is really fast conversion rates within the rumen. With small particle sizes (grass silage is optimally chopped at 1 3/4 of an inch, where as corn is chopped at ¼ inch) the corn is literally broken down much faster allowing the sheep or goat to get the 12½ pounds of dry matter it needs to stay healthy in cold weather.
Now that is at -20 f. Imagine what happens to the animal when it gets down to -40 degrees. Now we have to feed them almost 14 pounds of dry matter per day. You are not going to do that with hay or grass silage for sure. This is why feeding corn is excellent in cold weather...lots of energy that is converted quickly in the rumen.
For those without corn silage though, all is not lost. Feeding grain in cold weather (which is mostly corn anyway) does nearly the same thing. Its different because the grain by passes the rumen and goes right into the stomachs of the ruminant animal without hitting the rumen. This means you lose a little rumen function which equates to warmth, but you still gain the quick energy levels from how quickly the sugars (seconds) and starches (minutes) are processed.
So in really cold weather, its never a bad idea to feed corn. The reason is actually pretty sound. Ruminant animals such as sheep and goats evolved from complete diets of nothing but grass, but those animals never existed in cold regions such as Maine and the Canadian Maritime's. We imported them here and have to feed them a diet where they can survive. Without corn or grains, they are stressed in cold weather.
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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| Not a myth. As I have had quite a bit of experience with goats getting sick from mold......I will still say they are *highly* susceptable. I'm not saying that it is not *possible* to safely feed silage to goats.....if you know what you are doing. But I would never reccomend just anyone feeding it. And I will personally never chance it.
Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Dairy and Meat Goats
http://www.freewebs.com/ozarkjewels/
Also Morningland Dairy Raw Milk Cheeses. www.morninglanddairy.com
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| Yes, location and management do make a difference, although I know goat owners in MN, and Canada who also feed no grains, just quality hay to their non-working goats and their goats are very well-rounded and healthy. Again I stress *quality* hay. I won't comment on sheep as I do not own them anymore. Sold out of sheep 7 years ago and went all goat.
Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Dairy and Meat Goats
http://www.freewebs.com/ozarkjewels/
Also Morningland Dairy Raw Milk Cheeses. www.morninglanddairy.com
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| I just want to thank you both for your comments. I'm not in a place (financially) where I can afford to have someone come in and analyze my nutrition so I have to adapt based on experience and use the experience of others to hopefully shorten up the learning curve. This summer/fall everything seems to be out of what should be "normal" sequence (Bucks in rut sooner and needing to feed hay sooner). I'm not sure if I feed quality hay or not; it is an alfalfa/prairie grass mix and looks better (greener, etc) than what I had last year. Since I managed to have 7 healthy kids on the ground (with no losses...see how small I am) I will probably do something very similar to what I did last year. I subscribe to the KISS methodology and if it's not broke; don't fix it. Since I am in the very frigid north, I will opt for more grain as I know I like hearty, comfort food when I'm cold to keep me warm (-40 on the bad nights). Thanks for sharing your experience. Mary Ann
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Mary Ann you are more right then you think. While Ozark Jewels and I can debate the theories of nutrition until the cows, sheep and goats come home, there is one absolute law of nutrition that cannot be overstated or said loudly enough.
THE ANIMALS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT!
Pay careful enough attention to your animals and you will be just fine.
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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Just remember that goats put on internal fat before they out on visible fat. So by the time you see those poochy elbows and fat tails, they already have a very unhealthy level of internal fat. The first places the fat builds up is around the reproduction organs and the kidneys. Causes breeding/kidding problems more than any one other cause. And don't confuse good rumen developement with fat of course. A large barrel is a sign of good feeding, fat is a sign of too much kindness.
Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Dairy and Meat Goats
http://www.freewebs.com/ozarkjewels/
Also Morningland Dairy Raw Milk Cheeses. www.morninglanddairy.com
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| Hi, This is also my first time to post. I just wanted to thank you for answering some of my questions concerning goats.
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As everyone else has mentioned, the key is GOOD QUALITY hay, and that's a big issue for me. It's almost impossible to find good hay around here(especially this year) . You wouldn't believe some of the crap I'm forced to feed, so for me, a concentrated feed is the great equalizer. I feed a pelleted ration that is made from screenings and other grains. Depending on the time of year, I get either 12% or 14% protein and have amonium chloride added so I have no worries about UC. My herd is almost entire Boer and by fall, their work is done but our winters are so cold, they are working HARD just to stay warm, and without the pellets, there's no way they would fair well in winter.
Mountainport Farms, home to 50 some odd goats, 4 LGDs, 1 crazy Australian Shepherd, 2 cats, a dozen chickens, a rabbit and a chinchilla -- oh, and two people!
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