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New Member
 
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Last Login: 4/15/2009 8:39:22 AM
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| My immediate thought is who cares if it's not farmable, it's 70 acres away from my current neighbors from hell. LOL! But seriously, you need to know what makes it un-farmable. Then I would look into grass raised livestock, free range poultry, and raised bed gardening.
“I’d rather be governed by the first 2000 names in the Boston phone book than by the dons of Harvard.” ~ William F. Buckley, Jr.
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Average Member
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Last Login: 6/14/2009 6:27:31 PM
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| Or is it a case as with some programs were you are not able to do anything with it based on a program. In some cases the land deal means the lands stays open, but you can't do ANYTHING, Not even spray for weeds or mow.
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New Member
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Last Login: 4/15/2009 8:39:22 AM
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Exactly meadowbrook! There's 52 acres just outside town that is a S-T-E-A-L! Or is it? Nowhere in Santa Barbara County are you going to find 52 acres for $475,000! So what's the catch? Well about 1/3 of the land is being held by the Feds as a habitat for the tiger salamander! They can't GIVE the land away!
“I’d rather be governed by the first 2000 names in the Boston phone book than by the dons of Harvard.” ~ William F. Buckley, Jr.
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Starting Member
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Last Login: 8/3/2009 6:21:12 PM
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| Sounds great! It sounds like you may have a good opportunity to learn haying from someone who's done it for some time. Thats always good from the trouble shootin end of it. We bought 20 acres 3 years ago and had to buy equipment to do it. Not cheap, even the old stuff. We have a rancher living next door who loaned us his swather when ours wasn't ready to use in time to harvest our oats. My husband traded some mechanics when the neighbor needs help in that regard. I would suggest testing the soil, making sure you have the water available for the crops you want to grow and spray for weeds early. We started out with oats to improve our soil. Next year we are going with alfalfa because you don't have to seed it again for 5-7 years. Read, Read and Read before you plant. Best wishes in you success
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Senior Member
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Last Login: Today @ 8:55:34 AM
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There are very few "unfarmable" acres really in the actual sense of the word. If you need a reminder of this go to Downeast Maine and look over the blueberry barrens there. 12000 acre fields that are wide open and nothing but rock...car sized rock and yet blueberries grow there. That is because blueberries grow on a mulch and thin soil so you can grow a crop on almost no soil at all. But that is the thing...you must match the crop to the soil. You aren't going to grow carrots on that kind of soil that's for sure! (LOL)
On the other end of the extreme is wetland, but I have seen some desperate people stick livestock on some very wet pastures that are indeed hydric. Since this is private farmland, you can pretty much do anything you wish...but here is the thing. If you do farm on soil the NRCS considers hydric...you are out of any government subsidies. Before you scoff that off too quick, that means everything, from the simple wool deficiency loan program that pays you for your wool, to the higher end issues of irrigation. In farming it is kind of silly to shoot yourself in the foot too early.
Anything between those two extremes are indeed farmable. Now the NRCS does allow you to farm hydric soil, you just cannot disturb the soil. So even if you have acres upon acres of swamp, if you are persistent enough and can find some markets for such odd commodities as frog legs and turtle meat...well you could indeed "farm" the wetland. You just may not be able to farm it in the conventional sort of way.
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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Average Member
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Last Login: 11/1/2009 6:18:12 AM
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no disrespect ment, but is someone is going to just hobby it... do they deserve subsidy? I mean really? haven't we given enough to people who don't honestly do something? I'm talking in general here. but really..
to be fair...let me make an abstract...totally bananas example to keep it light. If you own a business, and your brother in law tells you he's racing on the dirt track every Saturday. The track has no fans... and he never wins the race.. then he asks " will you sponsor my car 100%" Come on.. you won't make enough back to justify the money spent.. no matter who the driver is.
Same with hobby stuff. Why the heck should a persons fun and amusement be assisted with tax money when the world is in the tank? No one will benefit but toe one who get's the check.
We have enough expenses paid for with grant money from producing agrabusiness. We have more farmers now than we need. If you find a deal... I'm glad..and I'm very happy your spending free time farming, but at the same time...the market is flooded and the nations coffers are not.
It's not like we need to lower the price of farm products any more.
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Senior Member
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Well WOS that is because you are looking at subsidies purely from the fiscal point of things and that is just not how they work. First off they were voted in by legislatures and while my opinion of those people are not always high, they do have a ethical obligation to vote on measures that they feel their constituents will benefit from. The real question is...can I benefit from some of these programs? In a lot of cases the answer is yes, but it is one silly farmer that constantly changes his farm plan to grab money every time a new farm bill comes out. You'll go insane trying to do that.
The other part of the equation is the size of the farm. Now 70 acres is pretty small, but if that land base meets the requirements of 1000 bucks per year in profit...then they are entitled to subsidies assuming that land was in the USA. In Canada where farms are far more subsidized, so they can probably get even more. And they probably should get involved.
I am not sure what the rainfall and absorption rate in Manitoba is, but in Maine those 70 acres would produce a run-off of 3 million gallons of water. It behooves every citizen whether they have 1 acre or 12000 to ensure soil stays in place and water quality is up. The problem is, it's pretty easy to deal with smaller acreages, but higher acreage takes a lot more money because the problems increase with each acre. The government knows private land is private land, BUT they also know farmers and large land owners cannot invest in conservation measures because of the costs involved. In my case they are not giving me money to build a road to get out crops, they are giving me money to build a road that is crossing a water resource, and they want that road build to stringent specifications so that that road does not contribute to water issues down stream. They control that by helping to pay for it. With the money comes strict design and help.
The fact that these farms are simply here means they should be farmed with conservation in mind. It does not matter if a 5 acre hobby farm has excess animals and is polluting the local stream, the fact that the local stream is polluted is the real problem. That is why I promote these government conservation programs and try to get more small farms involved in them. By getting the word out that help is out there, small farms can improve conservation methods and get soil and water quality improved downstream of them. Ironically the large farms have been involved for years in these programs so they got their act cleaned up...now it is time for the smaller farms to get involved.
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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Average Member
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Last Login: 11/1/2009 6:18:12 AM
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well politely,
These are not full time farmers... they are novist.They are hobbyists paying for there fun with tax money. Want to benefit everyone? don't waste tax money. If a true need is to be met, then it should be no trouble to find backing or make enough money back to pay off an investment.
If it's not, then why build it? There is no honest incentive.
It's time to weed the fields. We have so many programs that anyone can just start fishing for them, digging us a deeper and deeper hole.
why not let the markets do there job? trashy land sells for less. So if someone with a work ethic wants to farm, they could invest in trashy land and then with there own hard work, fix it. If it's a lagit business the costs can be written off. But if the idea falls threw...or the business owner, like any business owner becomes weak of heart and fails.. well no reward.
WE have many "business grants" handed out here in PA that NEVER became anything. Many people get grant money and then never perform the promises they made. This system just keeps adding and adding grants and perks...mostly to get votes
Remember when people got money the old fashioned way?.... they earned it.
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Senior Member
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WOS...in some ways you are right, but the small farmer/hobbyist is nothing to really fear. Its simply a product of the baby boom, with so many baby boomers beginning to retire and a renewed interest in farming, its on;y natural that this generation who are cash-laden with retirement funds are going to buy up 20 acre plots and farm, but the age will certainly catch up with them, and with any hope they will like the farming lifestyle and pen up that farmland with farmland preservation clauses and our generation will buy or lease that farmland and continue to farm with even larger farms. You have to realize that the population bubble is simply inching along the timeline of this earth. Last year saw the lowest birth rate of the last 50 years so as the baby boomers die off, there will be a glutton of space for us.
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
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Starting Member
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Last Login: 10/26/2009 9:38:01 AM
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I have been reading what Draw and WOS have been saying and wanted to chime in here.
I think "Hobby" farm can be and is thought of in two ways.
1) Hobby - For fun, self fulfillment, not for profit (not a self sustaining profit anyway)
2) Small farm - For profit, 1st steps, foundation, new farmer
I agree with WOS if someones is doing type 1. If they are not really doing a farm to be a "farmer" then they really shouldnt get grants or subsidies.
I mean, my hobby is working on old tractors. No one is going to give me free money to play in my garage on old tractors just for fun :P
On the other hand if they are type 2, novice, learning, building, working hard, then they should qualify for some programs/grants. They not be able to run with the big boys on hundreds of acres but they are building something, they are contributing to the food chain, and they are or will become reliant on that income just as a larger farmer is.
I would also like to say its not just baby boomers who have gotten a new interest in farming. Its a lot of people in there late 20's early 30's that are giving things a go too. I myself am only 30, almost 31 :( I never started thinking about farming until a few years ago. The more I have been working on it the more people I meet around my age that have also become very interested in farming and each have started in their own ways.
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