|
|
|
Average Member
 
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 6:35:36 AM
Posts: 687,
Visits: 723
|
|
| What I see is that the environmental movement has been perverted into money-making schemes. Everybody is "going green", on a commerical basis, because it is the fad, not because it is what is best for the world we live in. Because many citizens are trying to be more conscious of how they are impacting their environment, corporations are elbowing each other out of the way as fast as they can to come up with the next best "green" product. The green is what is going in their pockets. I live near a town that has a man-made lake (the river was dammed in the 1800's to better deal with the trees they were logging off). Every year, the lake gets green from algae bloom earlier and earlier. The people with the loudest voices and the most cash holler about the farms and fertilizer washing into the water system, but nobody says anything about the big perfect lawns that line the river and lakes. That riverfront and lakefront property is expensive and the people who live there want to show it off by having the greenest grass around. I'd bet the Potomac has a lot of properties like that, too. As for stewardship, it makes sense for each and every one of us to take good care of the land we live on. Yes, I use composted manure to fertilize my garden, but isn't that better than using chemical fertilizers? And what would I do with it all if I didn't compost it, then use it? It has to go somewhere. We re-use or recycle nearly everything and even look for things to pick up that we can recycle. Such as a load of wood that wasn't good enough for the pallet company (HUH?) - we've used that for building calf pens, shelving, a floor for our outdoor shower, and many other uses. But our style of stewardship isn't going to make anyone money. There won't be any lobbyists out there representing my family.
Karen
|
|
|
|
|
Senior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 3:14:52 PM
Posts: 1,641,
Visits: 1,357
|
|
You are so right Karen. Statistically there are more acres of lawn in this country then crops that feed us, and also statistically, suburbanites think more is better. Generally speaking they apply twice as much fertilizer as needed which results in run-off. The truth is, at todays fertilizer prices farmers cannot afford to get the minimal amount needed on the ground much less spend money foolishly to go to excess amounts.
Britboy's response was typical, but has been pretty much laid to rest here in Maine. Since we do soil every 3 years by USDA rule, and have manure management practices in place (organic matter and not synthetic fertilizers) we are prohibited from applying too much manure in any particular field. Soil engineers figure out what is appropriate.
The biggest culprit is actually towns and cities. When a lot of rain hits a town, their streets and paved areas divert enormous amounts of water to storm drains. There is no way the pollution control facilities can treat such a large amount of water in a short amount of time, so it is diverted downstream untreated. This is allowed by law under a loophole agreement (an simple logistics). So here in Maine when a large rain event happens, large areas of clam flats are closed to digging because of the algea bloom he cited. The government knows what the culprit is, but in order to control it every pollution control facility would have to be so huge that it would be cost prohibitive.
Its the same ole thing...farmers get the blame when its really society passing the buck and not taking ownership for their own problems.
I love vegetarians...slice them real thin, dip them in ranch dressing and they compliment lamb quite well! :-)
|
|
|
|
|
Starting Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 4:05:25 PM
Posts: 39,
Visits: 267
|
|
| I think I understand a little better and thank you all for your heart felt responses. Legislation seems to be the issue and that I get. It sounds to me like the government should be asking you guys what to do and how they can help you, not the other way around. Is there no representation for farmers? No lobbyist for the unsung hero? Maybe there is a way to be heard together. Forgive me, I am the eternal optimist. You guys have a lot of good information I think people should know. And yes, us city folk need to be responsible too, I watch the waste around me every day in suburbia. Lawns offend me. Next year potatoes will go right out front on Main St, let's see what they think of that
|
|
|
|
|
Average Member
Group: Banned Members
Last Login: 11/1/2009 6:18:12 AM
Posts: 586,
Visits: 509
|
|
representation? we are so small in reality that we don't provide the majority enough money or power grab opportunity so we don't amount to anything. Needless to say that we tend to just work day to day with each other in our own way and mind our own. Most of us think this forum stuff is = to spending all day in the coffee house. so we chose not to speak up.
IMO I don't want to piss anyone off, but I'm tired of have'n a lifetime of experience and still being forced to listen to some piss ant 21 Y/o with a PHD who just came in from philly.
I guess the other thing about a family farm with a history, is we see reminders of great ideas all over the farm. Programs from our grandfather's time that didn't work or died....and the reminders are left to rot here....were to the newcomers, all they know is the latest news/ideas from the media.
|
|
|
|
|
Average Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 11:24:22 AM
Posts: 568,
Visits: 996
|
|
| WOS, it is not money you give to your "union" (other than dues) it is your pledge to vote the way the union says. That is how the NRA does it. I have a business pal from middle Georgia, as country as you like, During the last election I was meeting with him and several others and they started to talk who they were voting for etc, Most of the "good Georgia boys" voted with there racial preferences but this guy said "I dont know yet, the NRA hasn't told me yet" Suddenly your union with all its members becomes pretty powerful doesn't it? Look at what people can do when they want to.
|
|
|
|
|
Average Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 11:24:22 AM
Posts: 568,
Visits: 996
|
|
| Mrs KK, WOS and DB regarding your lawn fertiliser example, If you look on the side of the packet it say that "to use the fertiliser in a way not intended is a federal offence" so there is a government mechanism in place to overdosing the grass, impossible to enforce I suspect but the concern is there. Why anyone would want to grow more grass.... to waste more time mowing or kill the pretty yellow spring flowers,is beyond me. I will give you an example where "green" works: old oil from cars is now dumped by the motorist into the recycling things. When I was a kid people dumped old oil into storm drains because there was no alternative. Carwashes having stop order put on them when droughts happen. Emmission tests for cars in cities. These are all government incentives are they not good?
|
|
|
|
|
Average Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 11:24:22 AM
Posts: 568,
Visits: 996
|
|
| Mrs KK, The National Geo article I was refering to actually blamed the PA Amish for the fertiliser problem. We all have problems with too much animal poo but when you store it for intensive spring time use is when the probs happen. -Application overload causes motherearth to overdose-
|
|
|
|
|
Average Member
Group: Banned Members
Last Login: 11/1/2009 6:18:12 AM
Posts: 586,
Visits: 509
|
|
It's far deeper than that brit. And that isn't the way a group is supposed to work. The group should work for the masses, not the other way round. I tell the leaders what I need and THEY fight for ME... I don't just bow and do what THEY tell me is best.
Since you hauled up the NRA... I recall a farm related meeting in Harrisburg were the farmers stood up over a gun tax in PA... the yellow dogs on the pannel were tripping over the topic so near and dear to the farmer.
This is how it is made to work... they work for me or I don't send THEm my money ect.
BUT in our world today so many of the masses would rather take orders than think for them self.
|
|
|
|
|
Senior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 3:14:52 PM
Posts: 1,641,
Visits: 1,357
|
|
Britboy...I agree with you. I spread fertilizer one year and then wondered why...alll that work to keep the grass cut every 2 days! Stupid me!
As for the disclaimer, I would think that falls under a blanket liability law that lets them get out of potential lawsuits if say a homeowner used too much near a lake or whatever. Just society today anyway...make a law then if that doesn't work, make a few more you do not enforce either!
But as for the storing of manure, that issue is actually covered by the CNMP. (Comprehensive nutrient management plan). I am not trying to argue with you at all here, just trying to describe how the system works for spreading manure. What you are refferring too is called "stacking" and it has very specific places that you can do this. The soil scientist finds suitable locations and this is where the "stacking piles" are placed.
For instance its typically on the highest part of the field so standing water or a low water table is not an issue. But it can't be on land with thin soil layers either. Stacking locations are very specific, and there are very specific times they are made, and penalties on when they have to be spread out. Most of the time, the government funds concrete pads for these stacking pads too. Like in my case, next year I should get a concrete composting pit for my sheep. Soil testing is done every 3 years, and the CNMP is drawn up every 5 years. All that is done under the CNMP which is typically a 100-500 page document. When they say comprehensive...oh they mean it.
I love vegetarians...slice them real thin, dip them in ranch dressing and they compliment lamb quite well! :-)
|
|
|
|
|
Senior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 3:14:52 PM
Posts: 1,641,
Visits: 1,357
|
|
Charlene...you make a very valid point in distinguishing Regulation as being something most farmers hate. For instance I did not dare plow up a 6 acre field on a 6% grade this fall due to the grade possibly causing erosion. I mean I can do whatever I want as this is a free country, but since I am tied in with the USDA, I would lose ALL government funds if I do something against best management practices. Better to ask first! So that is how regulation controls us...via the money!
Its just scary sometimes. It is always a cause and effect sort of thing. If you had done an internet search for carbon footprint in 1995 you would have got 3 hits, now us farmers are looking at more regulation based on carbon footprints. That is why there is some resentment to environmentalism. What's on the environmental segment of the news today is regulation for us tomorrow.
But we are not free from blame though. I think out of arrogance, we have gotten really bad at turning simplicity into a science. We test forage for protein quality, and we talk about the proper mix of legumes, grasses and weeds in our fields, and we talk of animal genetics when in reality, if you put hay in front of a ewe, and a ram behind her, you get lambs. Maybe its time we start an "simplistic movement" instead. Now Karen, that would be so anti-money, so pro-environmentalism and anti-materialism that it would never fly! (LOL)
I love vegetarians...slice them real thin, dip them in ranch dressing and they compliment lamb quite well! :-)
|
|
|
|