|
|
|
Starting Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 7:26:30 PM
Posts: 25,
Visits: 54
|
|
| I was shocked to see so many opposing views on the environmental movement on this website. I thought for sure farmers would be for the earth and be supportive of green initiatives. I am wondering why conservation and green living practices are offensive to this population? Aren't we all looking for a sustainable lifestyle?
|
|
|
|
|
Average Member
Group: Banned Members
Last Login: 11/1/2009 6:18:12 AM
Posts: 586,
Visits: 509
|
|
That really isn't fair. This movement and much of the taxes and products endorced by it are phony. The whole thing is just a large used car lot.
I'm sorry but the terms thrown around are tactics I learned in salesmen 101. The sharp angle close ringing in my ears every time someone says,
"don't you want to save the children ?" then the pause and let the pressure build till you pop them and take there money.
Don't you want to live a sustainable lifestyle or whatever is just asking me if I want to answer a loaded question. What if I say no? then I'm foolish right? or I hate kids or I hate grandma...or the earth or apple pie and mom.
"oh screw it, give me the over priced clunker."
and then the marketing words. Sustainable, Children... Green..
Written by well paid copy writers who want to make you feel a sort of duty or give you a hint of fear so that you'll change your lifestyle and contribute to the business they are in.
They are eating the Company Dog Food as it were.
Wouldn't you rather read what some poor farmer, who cares about the land has to say and has nothing to gain from you....rather than the ramblings of a joker in a loud tie.
If not.. Can I intrest you a bridge?
|
|
|
|
|
Starting Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 7:26:30 PM
Posts: 25,
Visits: 54
|
|
| I assumed you were for the earth, not against. I assumed farmers were stewards of the earth. And I am offended by your assumptions. I make no money being green nor does anyone in my family make any money being green. I am simply trying to understand the controversy.
|
|
|
|
|
Starting Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/14/2009 5:49:30 AM
Posts: 25,
Visits: 41
|
|
| Some of the green movement / environmental movement is a scam used to fill pockets with $$$ or gain power over others through regulations. Some of the green movement is valid. The "science" is often scrubbed by non-scientists in order to meet their goals and to sway public opinion. Because of all this I am leary of people and programs pushing the green movement. The whole story is often not told to allow people to see all sides. Example: "The glaciers at Glacier National Park are shrinking". Truth: Most of the glaciers are but 2 are actually growing. Farmers are the stewards of the land, at least until some bureaucrat in DC (pushed by an environmental group's lobbyist) enacts another "rule" effecting the farm operations. There are many things I do to protect the land: planted thousands of trees & shrubs to protect streams, planted cover crops to protect from erosion, road contruction to avoid run-off erosion, etc. There are things I will not do for very selfish reasons: I will not recycle as I want to fill and close the local landfills as soon as possible in order to remove the homicidal out of state trash hauling truckers from the area highways. Cap & trade of carbon credits, in my opinion, will doom this country in the same mannor that the sugar import restrictions & price supports have affected the candy industry. (sugar is 1/3 the cost in Mexico & Canada so candy manufacturers have moved out of the country). It's easy to stereotype the farmers to a preconceived image but we're all different. Maybe being closer to the land has opened our eyes a bit to the green movement fraud.
|
|
|
|
|
Senior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 8:55:34 AM
Posts: 1,155,
Visits: 941
|
|
Well said Bradford Pops, I feel the same way.
Am I green...you're darn right I am. I always joked that I am selfish because I don't want my neighbors to have my soil. All kidding aside, I do an amazing amount on conservation practices to stem soil and water erosion and belong to the county soil and water conservation district and do a lot on the state level. Oh yes, I care.
Last spring we had a massive ice jam on the outflow of a big lake here. The problem came down to 2 trees that were holding back the ice. The water back flowed until it was washing out a local road causing massive erosion issues...and fish killing silt down stream. The Dept of Environmental Protection came out, saw the two trees and said "before they can be cut we have to do an environmental impact statement on the watershed to see if they should be removed," then she smiled and laughed and continued," of course by that time the ice will have melted and the problem is gone."
In other words, she would not allow two trees to be cut, but had no issue with tons of silt and access to homes be ruined due to those two trees. It was incredibly stupid.
Farmers are practical, real world people that deal with reality on a daily basis. We mess up and animals die and crops fail. It really is that simple. I will do anything and everything I can to prevent soil and water erosion on my farm, but I have seen bureaucratic decisions...not based on local conditions, but based on statewide or nationwide ideas, be forced upon us. Even when they hand us gobs of paperwork with "proof" something is environmentally friendly, they change it 10 years later. I swear they do that to keep a job.
Need an example...years ago they said if we went to liquid manure, it would keep the nitrogen and other fertilizers below the level of the water and keep evaporation to a minimum. They went so far as to partially fund all the farmers for manure pits to convert. 10 years later they are saying they were wrong and that solid manure applications are better. Some farmers have not even paid off their manure pit loans and now they want us to revert back???
My family has been on this farm for 252 consecutive years, and hopefully will be so for just as many more. We have far more invested in soil and water quality then some bureaucrat making decisions in Augusta Maine or Washington DC ever would.
It is rude to answer a question with a question, but let me ask you this...name one thing the government has done that they have not royally messed up?
Eat lamb...because 50,000 coyotes CAN'T be wrong!
|
|
|
|
|
Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 7:20:04 PM
Posts: 379,
Visits: 722
|
|
| Goverments must leash in farmers and all landowners or more precisely any generator of "waste" that leaves your land. Agriculture and industry are both to blame but I think the government is trying to stop or more precisely minimise emmissions of all sorts wether it be in the air, in the water table or in the surface water. One of the problems is very typified by DB's comments about his stewardship of his families land. I bet he uses fertilisers that obviously improve his crop but I also bet he thinks little of what that fertilsers run off effect is at the estuary of the river that eventually reaches the Ocean and if he does consider it I bet it is about the "waste of money for lost fertilizer". A couple of years ago I read an article about Pennsylvania farmers and the fertilizer wash of eventually into the estuary of the Potomac???? and every spring the huge bloom of algia that kills everything for a couple of miles radius. At what point does the farmers unsatiable appetite for profit trump an ecosystems right to exist?. You must have regulations and severe punishments for offenders. This is a huge subject and you cannot really berate someone for wanting to green up. I hate it when I hear people quoting statistics because statistics are a group of mathematics that was developed to mislead. But not all "green statements" are false and nobody should generally catagorise them as such.
|
|
|
|
|
Average Member
Group: Banned Members
Last Login: 11/1/2009 6:18:12 AM
Posts: 586,
Visits: 509
|
|
I'd bet no one ever thought about the fact that IF you use such product you would do everything you could to keep the investments on your land.
Sorry brit but I don't need my government telling me to do things to improve my land. It's my investment, it's my legacy. Just because I don't have a PHD has no direct indication in how I keep up with my corner of the world.
The farmer and captains of industry are easy scapegoats. Farmers have little money, we are few and often missunderstood or Miss represented. How can we fight this propaganda if we have nether money nor man power?
And industry is easy to hate. They are "the boss", "the man." They oftentimes have more valuables, money and time than "the worker" who hate him and no matter what will feel under paid and under valued.
It is also in the interest of many groups paid by the government to increase there rules ect to better insure their job security. Follow the money. Legitimate ideas however are pursued by good farmers because they have an interest in actually improving there land.
But many of the subject brought up on this forum are not in the category of good ideas, rather they are ideas shoveled down/popularised by people who have something to gain.
|
|
|
|
|
Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 7:20:04 PM
Posts: 379,
Visits: 722
|
|
| WOS, the point I was trying (albeit badly) was that a farmer as an individual should make the best decision for himself (normally this would mean to maximise profits) but he should not be allowed to act with disregard to what is around you. That is what government should regulate and police. As you know I am not a US citizen but one of the exiting things about getting Obama as pressie was the fact that he seemed not to have the lobbyist baggage to answer to, we shall see whether he is strong enough to force his legislation through! BTW I am not endorsing B.O. but as a Euro I find it really interesting times in world politics and the green stuff will come to a head soon! Like I said interesting times a coming.
|
|
|
|
|
Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 7:20:04 PM
Posts: 379,
Visits: 722
|
|
| WOS With regard to your statement about lack of money, In Britain one of the most powerful lobbyist groups is the NFU (National Farmers Union) and this organisation fights for the small and large farmer alike, the union really looks after farmers interests even offering a cheaper private health insurance scheme and free or cheap legal advise and action if the union thinks the farmer is being set upon. There are two main political parties, Labour (in power now) and the conservatives (you will remember Maggie Thatcher) the conservative party is almost entirly bankrolled by the NFU and several other similar organisations. Actually one of the biggest recent fights was over the right to fox hunt on horseback with hounds, the NFU was for it and it was completely against public majority. All through the commons and lords the NFU won the "votes" but at the last minute the Queen of England refused to ratify the bill and fox hunting got banned. The NFU were flabbergasted because the royals were big into hunting but the Queen ruled in the best interests of the people. apparently it was the first time this had happened since Queen Anne c1700 ish. Many British people didn't even know she had the power to reverse parlimentary decisions.
|
|
|
|
|
Average Member
Group: Banned Members
Last Login: 11/1/2009 6:18:12 AM
Posts: 586,
Visits: 509
|
|
yes.. but there in lies this missconception that the masses don't understand.
To me it's a farm thing. I look after the land next door as my own. Partly because it's all family here. most men I know have this sort of self regulating body. Sure you'll have that guy from time to time.
But I don't know of anyone who has ever acted in the manor the media presents.
I do remember the fox hunting thing. I work with many a fellow from the UK. they pay men like me to rebuild the farm walls over that way. Personally I am for much much smaller government and free markets.
But to take it back to the original question of the person... the stuff we have commented on is not a fair rule of measure.
|
|
|
|