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RE: Winter pasture management

walls0stoneXXX — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 07:27:58 GMT

I'm still graze'n under snow.. we mowed pasture hard this year and took back lots of what nature wanted to keep. BUT then took temp fence and a very hot electric rope.to move stock from one hayfield to the next what a change this made

we used..R0PE! not string.. large as your finger so they can see and fear it even when it's off.

we saved 30 bails on a large scale rotaion.

RE: Winter pasture management

covergirl — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:35:23 GMT

I love my horses, but they make a mucky mess.

Sheep may eat the grass to the dirt, like horses...
but a horse greatly outweighs sheep.

little sheep hooves gently de-compacting the ground,
versus the larger hoof of the horse
x the weight
x dirt
x rain = a muddy mucky mess.

My horses like to run and play, which turns the muddy yucky mess
into a pasture nightmare by spring.

Pasture rotation, paddock and stable time are a must for my Remuda.
I use solar powered fencing and will section off areas as needed.
Within my sections Wherever the erosion/ wash/ gully/bad spot ect. I feed large round bales of Hay. The horses will usually do a great job of eating it down, spreading it out and stomping whats left into the area. (which helps the bad spot.
I put out 3-5 bales at a time. I have a string of 4 mares and a colt that I run on these sections. When the weather gets rainy I bring them into the paddock where they have access to stalls. When it gets bad wet I stall them up.
When the weather clears I let them back out.

I also have 2 geld and 1 stud that I run in the same fashion. Albeit they get more stall time.

I also keep a green belt around my property line by restricting the horses.
I will only let one or two horses at time on these areas. If at all.
That way I always have a clean area with out mudd or damage. Just in case a horse gets ill, or needs to be separated from the herd for whatever reason. (It makes for a great treat for your most favorite equine.)

I keep square Bermuda bales and grain for those days when access to the pasture and round bales is restricted.

I started out with bad fragile ground part sand/part clay...in middle Tn we get alot of rain in the winter. Most of my land is rolling hills.
The round bales and sectioning has greatly reduced my run-off/erosion and gullies.

Maybe my live and learn experience will be helpful to you.
Good Luck !
Joanie

RE: Winter pasture management

Drawbar — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:14:40 GMT

I have thistle here but its not really a problem because I know it will not last long. I do things a bit differently because I do not have any pastures that are "pasture only" per se. In fact my pastures are really crop land.

Its a good practice here to crop rotate every 5-8 years, meaning hay ground gets tilled up and put into corn, where it remains corn for 5-8 years, then gets tilled up and sowed into grass ground again. This is good because it breaks up the sod, aerates deeply and gets all that organic matter tilled deep into the soil. But it also kills all the weeds too so the thistle I have growing now...and all those darn dandelions... will be tilled under in a year or two.

This is both good and bad. The good part of it is that the sheep are eating high yield, high quality, high protein grasses like rye, clover, timothy, alfalfa and orchard grass since we are always reseeding with high protein seed. The bad part of it is that the grass is not as thick as a pasture would be that has had grass growing on it for years and years.

So what happens is, the dairy farm uses the crop ground for hay ground or corn ground. Sometimes they take only one crop and I graze my sheep on the second crop, or my sheep graze off the first crop and they take the second crop. Or in the case this year, my sheep grazed the third crop. Basically I just work around them since the dairy farm ALWAYS comes first. The sheep do well though because they are always on ideal feed!

It works well for me because with dairy cow manure applied every year, the grass is getting all the fertilizer it needs and grows to the maximum amount. Forget 4 tons to the acre here, my Uncle claims we are getting 15-18 tons to the acre, but I have a hard time believing that. Still I know its way more then 4 tons.

Yet I would not recommend this system to anyone but dairy farmers. It is very expensive for one, you have the deep tilling, harrowing, rock picking and then drilling of seed, all of which costs money for diesel fuel. Then you have the seed costs which can be cost-shared through the Government, but its still expensive. For the grazier like me, it means I move fences A LOT! The sheep may only be on a piece of ground for 3 weeks before they have to be moved. Or in the case this last week, I just plowed up 12 acres of my prime pasturing since it will be a corn field next year. It's a pain because it gets complex and means I have to coordinate my sheep with the dairy farm operations, but its good too because my sheep have the best feed year around.

RE: Winter pasture management

Dunlooken — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:06:31 GMT

You've got some good answers about sheep so I'll give my 2 cents worth about the horses. Mine have limited pasture area and stay most of the time in a dry lot. They get 2 to 4 hours of pasture time every day and stay off the pasture totally when it's wet or after frost when there is no snow cover. And it's the eating that's the problem. Horses and sheep are alike in that they'll eat right down to the roots.

You're going to need to figure something out that will keep the horses out of the mud. Way too many problems come from horses being in mud- mud fever, scratches, thrush, white line disease among others.

RE: Winter pasture management

walls0stoneIIX — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:52:11 GMT

I would agree with you Draw.. very much!!!!

Last year we had a debt owed us that we took in hay. It was easy for both parties.

however when the hay grew shorter in supply, I did go to the racks. I did however, continue the same concept but moved my rack each day. It only takes a short time to grab a bail with loader or tractor. So all that is added to the time, in rolling the feeder along.

looking outside today I see that the grass is still green were this practice was implemented.

RE: Winter pasture management

Drawbar — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:16:56 GMT

I like bale feeding because it is far easier then putting the hay into feed racks or into managers, but to be honest with you, if you need to conserve hay, it is the only way to go. Of course I have range sheep so they like to eat 24/7 if they can...which makes for fast conversion ratio's, but I don't need that on breeding stock ewes.

I find I get the best bang for my buck and reduce feed costs by dolling out the hay in racks. Its a bit better for the sheep too since if you have enough space for each sheep at the feeder, the less aggressive sheep do not get left out...everyone gets a measurable about or grain, mineral mix and feed.

As I said, its a lot better control so you can increase or decrease feed intake, but its not for the lame or lazy that is for sure. Its a pain to feed out that way, but since I am not using my own purchased feed, I have to use what feed I am given appropriately too.

Neither way is right or wrong...just different reasons for using one over the other.

RE: Winter pasture management

walls0stoneIX — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:52:43 GMT

the concept is simple. Just keep an eye on the area effected by the animals as they feed. Look at were the feed prints are...the scattered hay and such. then make your best guess as to how far the next bail must be from the old bail so that the 2 effected areas hardly overlap.

I feed 2 600lb bails to 30 grown cattle. SO that made my 10x10, but if you see that 10x10 is to large, don't forget you want to have an even effect the whole way across. If you hae 8 cows, make a 8x8 grid in your mind.

OR, if your stock are more active and crazy at the feed bunk, make it 12x12.

RE: Winter pasture management

Williams — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:46:26 GMT

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I'll go with my gut and pull everyone into the small feedlots for winter to protect the large pastures. And I'll try Wos's checkerboard feeding strategy - that seems like a smart approach.

I'd never heard of burning off the leftover hay mat in the spring to jumpstart growth. The one pasture area we've burnt came back thick with thistle. DB, ever had that problem with weeds coming into the burn over area?

RE: Winter pasture management

walls0stoneIX — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:35:38 GMT

Our pastures are large, and our beef never come inside. They stay out for no other reason other than it's just more cost effective. I feed round hay on the ground. Last year I implemented a system of feeding in a grid, keeping the cattle from standing on the same 10x10 spot each day when feed. This has proven effective since the grass is of a better quality in that 100x100 section were the checker board was laid out.

RE: Winter pasture management

Drawbar — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:28:21 GMT

Sorry I got off on Janet's style of operation and forgot to answer your question...

I am no expert of course but I think you are looking at the "damage to the pastures" from the wrong angle. I have a winter pasture that I "sacrifice" for the winter and keep my sheep off the better pastures. But I do not do this due to their hooves. In fact the punching of their hooves in the soil called "pudding" in pasture speak, is a VERY good thing. This helps break up compaction, and since grass seeds like clover, timothy and orchard grass, pass through the animal stomachs without being killed off, the sheep are actually reseeding the areas as the graze, punch holes in the soil, deposit the seeds and fertilize all at once.

The damage to the fields actually comes from the other end...their mouths. The lower a pasture is grazed down, the more the plants (grasses) are stressed. They say that its best for the grasses to be 6 to 8 inches high to really do well over the winter. If they are left at that height, then the next spring they recover faster, get greenier quicker and the plants are never stressed from the cold.

We take this to the extreme and seldom harvest field crops after August, and in years like this one where we absolutely had to harvest in September, we do so with the cutting height of the haybine a little bit higher. Obviously you can work this out quite easily. I have grazed my sheep late into the fall but I also did sop with a very light stocking rate. This year it was 1 sheep per 2 acres of field. With such light density there is no way the sheep will eat so much grass that the entire field is stressed.

Anyway, this is my understanding of why its not good to graze pastures into winter. This is best for the plants, but for some people it makes fiscal sense to not have winter feed costs and winter graze.

RE: Winter pasture management

Drawbar — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:14:02 GMT

Oh yes I know Janet quite well. She is really big into grass fed sheep and has her ideas and improved methods on it. She is really into promoting sheep, developing good genetics and is glad to give her opinions on any of it to those willing to listen.

I kind of alluded to this in my earlier post, but if things were different perhaps I would be more inclined to push my grazing deeper into the winter and maybe even do full winter grazing. The truth is, I am tied in with the dairy farm pretty tightly so my winter feed is provided for me at no cost. There really is no motivation for me to winter graze or reduce my reliance on winter feed when there is no cost savings in doing so. In fact considering the costs of fencing, it would probably cost me more to graze the fields then feed them hay, haylage or corn silage.

Now don't get me wrong, this is just my particular situation. I don't fault anyone (and in fact I encourage others) to try and push grazing to the max to reduce costs. I do want to warn others though that doing so means a lot of responsibility.

I know a few years ago a guy here had some sheep, got divorced and had no money or place for his sheep...so he left them out in a field and called it "winter grazing". They starved and ultimately the state took custody of them and filed charges against him for that little act. In other areas of the country it would be easier to winter graze and shove the grazing season deep into winter, but in Maine its a bit tougher.

It also takes a lot of land. Its not actually from the grazing that's the problem, but their hooves which destroys 80% of the crop. To get it all cleaned up, you have to keep your paddocks small, and move fence a lot. That is not easy when its 20 below and blowing twenty and you are out trying to drive fence posts in frozen ground. It certainly can be done, but as I said, you would really have to hate paying for hay since breaking apart a haybale and feeding it out is pretty easy compared to that. (LOL)

RE: Winter pasture management

Williams — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:53:28 GMT

DB,

You might want to check a website out if you haven't seen it yet. I think they're in MN and they are developing a grass-finishing breed of sheep called Tamarack Sheep. I saw their ad in SHEEP! magazine. Search on Tamarack Sheep and you'll probably find it easy.

Doesn't matter what you think about the breed, but they have a pretty nice and extensive website with lots of info on how they manage their winter grazing. It's more extensive and land-hungry than I want to get into - but very interesting info. I bet you'll enjoy reading it.

I guess I was asking more about managing the pasture than managing the sheep (does that make sense?). I'll feed the animals grain and hay to keep their nutrition up, but my question is will sheep hooves hurt the hay field during winter if I leave them have access? Will horses?

RE: Winter pasture management

Drawbar — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:47:09 GMT

I put my sheep into a dry pasture during winter season and then bale feed. I think this is best for northern climates, where as in southern areas, leaving them out on pasture all the time is just fine.

Some winter graze as you mentioned, but its above my skill levels as a Shepard at this point I think. It does save some costs, but I think the reaction time has to be extremely fast on the shepard's end of things. I mean sheep can paw through some snow, but they cannot paw through ice, so if an ice storm hits, you would have to pull them off pasture really fast. Can you do that quickly...say within 24 hours of a storm hitting? I tested some frozen winter feed last year to see what it tests out as and it was extremely low on protein...this is at a time when a ewe is with lambs so it needs good feed...what would the affect being on the lamb crop? I am not saying it can't be done...heck I want to do it...but it's pushing the grazing to the absolute maximum and that is not for the faint of heart...and only for those willing to lose a significant portion of their lamb crop if they got it wrong. I want to try it, but to be honest with you, I don't hate my winter feeding costs so bad at this point that I find a need for winter grazing.

So I put my bales out on pasture, typically in a bare spot of pasture, roll them out and let my sheep eat what they want. Then in the spring when they are good and dry, I burn what the sheep did not eat, and between the ash and the accumulated manure, the grass turns an amazing lush green! I call this bale feeding on pasture and it works quite well for me.

RE: Winter pasture management

cweick — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:03:43 GMT

We don't have sheep or horses, but cattle.

We rotate them in the fields. But we do have decided ryegrass fields. Pa-Pa is working on modifyling the gates to allow only the claves into the ryegrass fields and not the cows. We were to dry last year to bail any ryegrass for the cattle. Rains set in after the 15th of August and then they went to work cutting and bailing everything. Pa-Pa was even going to do the ditches but the state came through and mowed it before we could do them.

Winter pasture management

Williams — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:36:29 GMT

I'm wondering the best way to manage my pasture/hay field this winter. I have read that some farmers keep their sheep on pasture all winter long, allowing them to scrape down to grass (along with supplemental feed/hay). But I know that many horse farms move their horses off the good pastures for winter so that they don't rip up the sod with their hooves during wet periods in fall/spring. I have horses and sheep - should I put up the horses and leave the sheep in the pasture?

I'm tempted to put everyond up in a dry lot(s) this winter to protect the pasture, but I hate to keep everyone confined all winter long. The 'dry' lots are prone to floooding/standing water during wet periods, so they're not great for hoofed animals. We make hay on this pasture, so sound management of it is more important than animal happiness - if I have to choose between the two.

What has worked for you all?