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RE: Caseous Lymphadenitis????

nophonz — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:14:31 GMT

Assuming an accurate diagnosis (and it probably is accurate based on your description), the best choice would be to cull the doe and hand raise the kid. Calls for cold detached decision in order to try to protect the others. You won't, in all likelihood, be able to salvage her and keeping her around contaminates the premises, no matter how careful you are, putting you other goats at unnecessary risk.
Cull any others that show up with abscesses before they break and drain. If you have a small group, you may end up depopulating, disinfecting and starting over. Hard lesson. In the same situation, it is exactly what I would do.
Florida veterinarian.

RE: Caseous Lymphadenitis????

Sue Weaver — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:34:17 GMT

Pygmy Princess (5/21/2008)

Both my goats developed absesses in the neck after being vaccinated with CD&T. Both ended up having to be lanced and drained by the vet. If that's the case, the vet will lance it, flush with fluid and leave it open for a few days. You'll have to inject mastitis ointment into the hole for a few days and let it close up on its own. Both my goats recovered without incident. I think it's best to get the stuff tested by a vet and get vet advice before self-diagnosing your animals. The absesses started as granulomas after being vaccinated and a few months later slowly turned into big lumps. So even if they were vaccinated a few months ago, it could be the cause.

That's excellent advice.

When we got our first sheep and sheared them, we found (oh nooooo!) a soft knot on Rebaa's back. I had the vet out to lance it and have the contents tested. It wasn't CL.

Last year my friend Lori's shearer sheared through an abscess on her ram's back. Of course some of the pus spilled on the ground and everyone was upset. It, too, was cultured and it wasn't CL.

So it doesn't pay to jump to conclusions, but it is wise to avoid situations where you're likely to bring CL into your flock or herd. Sale barns are obvious no-nos and it's good to have stock you're buying blood-tested for CL or to buy from breeders who test.

Sue

RE: Caseous Lymphadenitis????

Pygmy Princess — Wed, 21 May 2008 13:09:09 GMT

RE: Caseous Lymphadenitis????

Cherie Langlois — Wed, 14 May 2008 13:49:07 GMT

Sorry Sue, I just realized I never answered your question (still learning the ropes of this board!)

I've always given CD/T to my goats and Covexin to my sheep (I'm not really sure why I started doing that!). I've had both types cause the swelling and occasional abscesses. I give them sub-Q in the side of the neck. Your site sounds like an easier spot

Cherie

RE: Caseous Lymphadenitis????

Sue Weaver — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:06:25 GMT

Oh, I meant to add this link. It's a chart showing where CL is most likely to occur, compliments of our friends Matt and Claudia Gurn of MAC Goats: http://members.psyber.com/macgoats//IndexTHREEmacgoats.htm#CASEOUS%20LYMPHADENITIS

Nearly all of the CL I've seen has been at the site right behind the ear.

Sue

P.S. I just checked the above link and it does not automatically take you to the CL chart on MAC Goats' educational page--you'll have to scroll on down to find it. However, Claudia has a world of interesting goat information on that page, so you might find some other interesting things as you scroll!

RE: Caseous Lymphadenitis????

Sue Weaver — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:03:51 GMT

Cherie Langlois (4/29/2008)

Hi,

I just had a thought as I was reading through this thread: you mentioned the abscess was in her neck -- is it possible the abscess formed where you administered her yearly vaccination? With my goats, no matter how careful I am, a large lump always seems to form after I give them their yearly CD & T. Usually it gradually goes away over time, but a few times it has formed a strange abscess with thick white pus that I've drained and cleaned with betadine. I admit the possibility of CL never occurred to me, but my two girls seem healthy and are going on 12 now, so I'm pretty sure that wasn't it. Anyway, Sue's advice to get it checked out and be sure to wear gloves sounds good to me!

Good luck,

Cherie

Cherie, do you use CD/T toxoid or Covexin 8? We had a terrible time with CD/T vaccine failure last year, resulting in several cases of enterotoxemia, so I switched to Covexin 8. Bad move! Nearly every sheep and goat we have developed the sort of abcess you're talking about. I later learned that's very typical for Covexin 8.

So, we switched back to regular CD/T vaccine but are using a different brand. We haven't had any problems so far.

Many folks in the Boer world are starting to vaccinate between their goats' front legs so that if abscesses form, they aren't mistaken for CL. However, I still prefer to give shots into the loose skin of an 'armpit'.

Sue

RE: Caseous Lymphadenitis????

Cherie Langlois — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:03:13 GMT

RE: Caseous Lymphadenitis????

Sue Weaver — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:24:43 GMT

PaintedPastures (4/28/2008)

Hi Sue~

Thanks so much for the information! I have a lot of reading to do.

I have the doe in a small enclosed pen, what advise to you have on the bedding? Burn it when we need to change it? I usually put the bedding on the garden or compost it, but dont want to do that with this bedding. Something else that I havent come across is cleaning her water bucket/feeder. Should I clean them with bleach water daily? Or does anything "kill" this nasty stuff?

Thanks again~Christine

I'd burn it. Also, once this is resolved, very, very carefully disinfect every surface she might have touched. If it were me, I'd definitely disinfect her bucket if it looks as though it's been touched with discharge. And remember, wear gloves! :o)

CL is an ongoing, somewhat volatile subject at some of the YahooGroups goat lists so I've gleaned most of my knowledge from reading the type of resources I sent you and posts at these lists. Some owners are very outspoken about killing any infected goat and others are just as adamant about managing the problem so the infected goat can live, while protecting the rest of the herd. I'd have to do the latter, so I'm really careful about searching for signs of CL before adding a goat or sheep to our farm. However, many carriers don't pop up abscesses unless they're stressed, so even that isn't 100%. Testing is the only way to know for reasonably certain and many breeders don't test.

Sue

RE: Caseous Lymphadenitis????

PaintedPastures — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:44:07 GMT

Hi Sue~

Thanks so much for the information! I have a lot of reading to do.

Thanks again~Christine

RE: Caseous Lymphadenitis????

Sue Weaver — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:42:12 GMT

PaintedPastures (4/27/2008)

Today I noticed that one of our Does had an open spot on her neck with a thick pus discharge. She is nursing a kid, which I promptly removed from the pen. I am thinking that she has Caseous Lymphadenitis...we have only had goats for about a month so wondering what information I could get from experienced goat owners?

From what I have read online there is no cure for it??? And it is very contagious. What do I do with her kid? Keep him seperated from her? I am guessing that he is about 6 weeks old...we got them from a sale barn (yes, maybe not the best place to get them from but they are cute and friendly)

Thanks for any help with this!

Oh, bad news. CL is very nasty indeed. You'd be wise to take a sample of pus to your vet and send it off to be cultured. If it is CL you'll probably want to vaccinate your other does ASAP. Unfortunately, there are no CL vaccines labeled for goats but many goat owners swear by Case Bac, a vaccine manufactured for sheep. That's what I would do in your situation, but since using Case-Bac to vaccine goats is off-label use, you should discuss it with your vet before you do it.

But first, I suggest you log on to this Web page: http://lazyjboers.com/ljcl.html After reading it, if you still have questions, email the author (Judy Muska) via that Web site. She's a nice person who goes the extra mile to help any goat person in need and she knows more about CL than any dozen vets I know of. :o)

For a more traditional approach, here are some additional Web sites to visit, but after reading them, don't necessarily decide to euthanize your goat if she does have CL. Like Judy says in her online article, it can't be cured but it can be managed.

Caseous Lymphadenitis at the Merck Manual www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/10801.htm

Caseous Lymphadenitis in Sheep and Goats www.vet.ksu.edu/depts/ClinicalSciences/agpract/articles/Caseous_Lymph.pdf

Caseous Lymphadenitis in Goats and Sheep (good photos here) www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0085

Keep in mind that it rarely happens but humans can catch this disease from animals, so be very meticulous about wearing gloves when you treat your goat's abscess.

Unfortunately, CL is one of the best reasons not to buy sheep or goats at sales barns. In fact, it's easy to bring it home on your shoes or boots if you're not exceedingly careful. :o(

I hope this helps.

Sue

Caseous Lymphadenitis????

PaintedPastures — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:33:56 GMT

Thanks for any help with this!