Hobby Farms Forums / HobbyFarms.com Forum Topics / Fabulously Frugal / we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s / Latest Posts

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

wallsostone — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:23:17 GMT

uh.. well I wasn't meaning to imply that the category was a bad category.
However, like the guy who wants to brag about being a farmer
(not hobby farmer) when he has one goat...I no more admire him than I admire the white kid from the upper west side who goes to the Getto to hang out with his pants round his knees.

yea I want to be in it for the money...and from MY point of view....and only speaking for myself... I've never been successful at anything I did for the money.

My ventures are fun and I would rather work on them than "play"... and then I turn around and wow.... I get a check for this?

I think that comes from farming. I knew I'd never make money at that... But I still love the work, that carried over into pay'n careers. I've seen this in the lives of my friends as well.

my tax man looked over my books. I only showed very little playtime

he asked what I had done for fun, thinking that I'd doctored something. But my Fun included work stuff...stone shows and workshops about stone walls. It was fun, but it paid.

see what I mean?

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Drawbar — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 09:44:31 GMT

See I see it the opposite way WOS...

I do it for the money, and I have a legacy in regards to farming, so yeah I have motivation to do well in farming, but take someone like Sue Weaver (hey we all love her and she is fun to zero in on); she spends all day writing, she has a few acres to her name, a modest home and she could easily toss on her ipod, ride around on her riding mower and cut grass when she needed an hour to think through an issue or whatever.

But she does not do that. She chooses to write about livestock, though she is a quality writer and could write woman's romance novels if she wanted too and probably make more money. And instead of mowing she raises a few goats, sheep and donkey's even though she would probably rather soak her bones in a bubble bath at the end of the day of endless typing instead of lugging haybales and mending fences.

So why does she do all this...and you know she's not making any money off the animals directly...because SHE JUST LOVES AGRICULTURE! She loves writing about it, she loves animals and she likes to help others gain that appreciation. Come on WOS...you got to respect that don't you...even a little bit? I know I do.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

wallsostone — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 09:16:49 GMT

see this is the thing about "hobby" farming

It's about your mind set. If Draw is in the ship yards and I Have to many ventures to count, BUT we don't farm full time, then I guess we are just hobby farmers.

But I'm not because it's.....well it's a state of mind... and a dash of reality.

For example IF you have 2 goats and an apple tree, you may as well have 2 dogs and an apple tree.

At the same time, if you have a billiondollar company, and farming is a write off, then you would be in the same category as the man with the goats.

BUT if you farm a lagit product, not just for the practical reasons - the warm fuzzy sales pitches... then your farming.

I'd add here, take that work ethic ect and apply it to a job. some get that ethic from other places, but farming is probably in the top 5.
Why the heck would you farm? Well for the reasons draw and I would list.

But still, if your the kind of man who will do whatever is needed in the compay, pitch in and help... if your the fellow who would work till the job is done, not till 5pm... you don't female dog you don't mind a little dust cuz you've been covered in crap plenty of times before...or even better you don't fuss if the office temp drops 2 degress below 70... then why the hell would you farm?

Your job offerers will be high and you have a skill you can apply to a gig that pays real money.

but it's the real farmer who keeps that cycle going so that his children will learn those skills and know what dirt tasted like.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

wallsostone — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 09:26:43 GMT

no kiddddddiiiiiinnnnnggggg!
Dang it draw

But the idea sold to the new comers is false... you know the people who buy into this stuff... think that we.. YOU AND I... are just down on the farm all day every day like some kind of Norman Rockwell painting. Those days are ad dead as Caesar.

Ok maybe you & I know a few.. but what kind of life to they live?

abject, total debt poverty! yea put that into a Christmas card or try to sell that bitter reality on the cover of the Saturday Evening post.

I'm sure that life style, if told in it's true form would be a great artical for this mag. LOL... a life of hand me downs and telling the kids they can't have some of the basic things the parent would love to give them but can't like after school sports or help them pay for college. Give the wife a vacation to some place other than the local park.

No those families are not less of families..and we are no less farmers for outside jobs..

MY POINT is that no one can pretend that a farmer can farm and not have a real job with out live'n a very poor lifestyle so Tiff is no diff than the rest of us because that is how it really is.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Drawbar — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:34:02 GMT

You are being too hard on yourself Tiffle. Many people have the capability of doing the work, it is the marketing aspect of things that is very difficult. The other part of the triangle is the financial tracking of things. I can do the operational stuff, and do the financial tracking, but marketing...I am not so good at that. Most people do not have all three abilities...they do well at 2 but not all three. That is why I say, don't be too hard on yourself.

That is why for me, direct marketing...though it can be lucrative...will probably elude me. It would be in my best interest to use my ability to produce lambs on a large scale at very low cost, and see that low cost through my intensive fiscal tracking. In that way I can sell low cost lambs at wholesale venues instead of being in a farmers market all day, or trying to drum up sales.

Just remember it is great to eliminate the middleman, and take his cut of the money, but to do so, one must also do the work he did. That might be catching too big of a tiger by the tail.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Drawbar — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:25:38 GMT

Okay now that is a fallacy WOS...it is called non-agricultural income and it is where we are in 2009. Its like having a stay at home wife, a few do it, but most families in 2009 have two incomes now, so the question is...are they no longer considered families because via your definition they are not?

It is the same with farms. The cost of living in this country...in all sectors...has surpassed the single income of any entity. Insert any career choice here, from being an engineer for a construction company, to being a machinist on a tugboat. You need your spouse to be making an income as well.

And so I don't know of any farmer here that does not have a wife that does not work off-farm and the reason is really simple...health insurance. In the future, farmers here are hoping to off-set the high cost of electrical consumption with windmills. If they can lease their land and have a zero electric bill, they can compete with low milk prices, or thrive when high milk prices return. Other farmers I know of, have vast gravel pits which the mine in order to make money. Some even shear sheep!

I have a whole list of potential non-traditional incomes in my farm plan. Yes gravel mining is one, wind power is another, apple trees are another, and so are maple syrup and hunting leases. If this is what it takes to keep the farm out of development, then you bet I am prepared with some ideas.

If you are not making money farming full time with beef, it is indeed time to diversify. That is where the 3 major sides comes into play. Its very seldom all three sides fail. For me it is sheep, dairy cow feed and harvesting wood (logging). Right now dairy cow feed prices are down, and its all I can do to get rid of wood. But lamb prices are still up. If I ever get my windmills here, I will drop logging and stay with wind, sheep and feed. It is okay to change WOS...its how farms stay farms.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

wallsostone — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 05:14:32 GMT

The cold hard fact Tiff, is that no one is making a living off full time farming.

So someone perceived to be farming full time has another job or a large off shoot of there farm that makes money, like a turf business or black soil company. the idea that the "real farmer" is farming full time is not so... because the real farmer can't make enough money to support himself.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

wallsostone — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 07:46:02 GMT

we rent to family, never thought of selling... but none of our tenants other than those born into the life ever stuck with it more than a few years.

Organic is already dead. and I'd say that the next big thing will die even faster.

If money was put into the place, we make them do it because we know they won't take care of things we do for them.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Drawbar — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 03:17:49 GMT

The first place to start is by talking to the farmer that is currently leasing your farmland. Anything you do will certainly impact him/her and anything they did will impact you. I know here in Maine, if a piece of land is sold, and the farmer has just made improvements to the land such as clearing, fertilizer or obstacle removal...and the new landowner does not allow them to use it anymore, they have to pay back the cost of those improvements... and this can be a written or oral contract. When you start factoring in the cost of equipment and inputs, it can be substantial money. Here cow manure has a value of 1.5 cents per gallon, and with 3 applications at 5000 gallons per acre, well your 35 acres would be worth $8000 dollars including equipment rates, etc).

You also mention organic farming which has a whole new set of rules to deal with. Even those with lots of farming experience find it difficult to do. I would ask myself two hard questions...

1. Do I want to do organic farming for the extra money it can bring in? I mean there is not a farmer alive that does not look at the higher prices of organic commodities and wishes they could get that, or...

2. Do you want to do organic farming out of ethics.

Either way, you will have your farm tied up for 3 years as the land goes into transition from conventional to organic. To me that is a rather sad situation. As I type this I know of 4 or 5 farms that were going to "go organic", left the farmer that rented it without a few hundred acres, and yet the people never did get into organic farming and the farm continues to sit idle as trees grow up and the fields become clogged with queen annes lace and smooth bedstraw...sad...very sad.

If you are looking at getting into any sort of livestock, the best idea is to use the forest to help rebuild the buildings assuming they can be fixed. 90% of any building is made of wood, so you could use the 35 acres of woods, pull out a few good sized logs and saw them into boards with a portable, custom sawmill outfit. Then rebuild the barn using that material. Its always nice to have the best shelter possible for animals as they do better that way.

If the buildings are shot and are of no practical value, then you would probably be better off finding a livestock that prefers not to be housed. Sheep comes to mind as they are very hardy animals and on my farm spend about 94% of their time outside (I actually track my confinement rates).

As for the land being rented out now...I would talk with the existing farmer and work out a deal. I would take an acre or two of land and plant a garden, using the appropriate buffer zone. In this way you would get a feel for what it takes to do a big garden organically, and would not have a lot tied up in it. At the same time you can legally sell organic food as such, as long as you make less than 10K per year, and do not sell the stuff as certified organic...a lot of people do not know this. You can legally sell organically produced products as such without going through the hurdles of certification...if you are under 10k per year.

I might even rethink the organic aspect of things. Currently the big shift is in local food and "naturally grown" is a really big form of farming that splits the difference between conventional and organic...in short it is very sensible and I have not yet lost a customer when I explained how my sheep are raised in this "naturally raised" way. It is a great alternative to the restrictions of organic farming.

But here is the major point. You really should talk with the existing farmer. Their may be a contract in place already, and I would say that at some point 99% of small farms have to go to a big farmer to resolve issues. Me and WOS have seen this before...we spend a few thousand bucks improving a farm we lease, have the new owners decide they want to use it themselves, and then they run into trouble and come back to us looking for feed for their animals, or needing medical advice for their livestock, or simply give up on farming and want us to take the farm back...at which we refuse as we have already got burned pretty bad in the wallet. In your case you do not want to burn your bridges too early...

Talk to the farmer that uses your land and come to an agreement...they know your farm probably better then you do, and can give you a better farm plan then any of us ever could.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

tma81760 — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 09:23:56 GMT

Congratulations
I have a 72 acre farm that was given to me from my aunt. I have 30-35 acres that is rented out as crop land and about 30-35 acres that is wooded land. I have a barn and other buildings that need repair. My large chicken coop is housing 6 laying hens. I don't know where to start. My goal is to have an organic farm and sell the produce. I need to start somewhere. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

wallsostone — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:33:45 GMT

grumpy? LOL. not me. I'm not broke.

But you are the only one who would get my jokes.

Honestly I don't like were the mentality of some farmers in my area is going. They say..well if AIG get's money why don't we. well I'd like to support myself thank you.

Since this is a site for many kinds of people, I express my values as I do because I'm sure many people never think about were the subsidy money comes from. I mean many people don't even think were eggs come from.

The encouragement of grants only encourages higher taxes and greater national debt. This subsidy, bail out, grant stuff is seldom from the kindness of the hearts of our leaders. It takes from those who are still paying taxes and gives to those who have not earned it.

let's look at it another way. If I do a stone job, I get paid AFTER I do work. If I do a radio job, I get paid after the spot is on the air.
Money up front from a group you know won't be come'n round to check up on you is NOT how it should work. NOW if you want to do the work and then get some sort of write off.. then that's fine..... YOU do something and then they reward you.

Or think of it like this.. school boys who were given anything they wanted here were called spoiled. Remember them? as 6Y/o they pitched a fit in the store for candy and mommy just gave it to them...

Then they got a car they never took care of... and daddy paid for it

and then they went to college and got a degree they never used, partly due to the beer they drank and the girl they got pregnant.

Come on, we all know we'd never raise a child that way... he'll amount to nothing and be nothing but a financial strain on his parents. WE are better parents than that. We don't give our kids whatever they want when they want it just to make them shut up.

So why take tons of money for any pipe dream hobby, wannabe idea?

I'll give you another one. just for the sake of polite, but real banter.

I've honestly looked at these farmers markets in my area since following this mag. The state put up a ton of money as did the small community groups to start them. The people who run them, post the adds ect... But they have the money up front.

they don't plan well. all the markets are on Saturday morning. Well... how dumb is that? these small towns are only a 1,000- people and most of them are farmers have a garden ect. . SO they turn into just gathering places. Free Coffee and doughnuts for the customers who just talk and buy nothing...and the last 2 markets I stopped at had NO produce. Just whatever... a hodge podge of stuff that you could get any place in town.

So not only were the patrons not paying for coffee at the coffee shop, they were not buying things from the few tents in each town. But the people running these things don't care. They received grant money or got paid by the town to do them. Heck they get money for the tents and signs and one fellow even got a car so he could drive around and promote local food. A NEW CAR!

There is no incentive to do a better job! But it's our tax money at work.
Grants for real farmers are a catch 22. After all the masses need cheep food ect. I still won't take it, I don't need it.

BUT if you follow the world news as a whole, Grants and free money deals are the new Dot com & real estate bubble

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Drawbar — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:03:15 GMT

If that was true, then why are you so grumpy all the time? (LOL)

I agree with most of what you say, but I am extremely happy at the moment getting an influx of money to improve my farm as never before. The question in my mind is not whether I should take the money, it's how to stretch it out so that I can get the most done with what I got.

Maybe its a Maine thing, but here the farmers have gotten by so long with so little that we do not take advantage of the Gov programs. A few have, but as a whole, farmers do not abuse the financial help.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

wallsostone — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 06:25:57 GMT

Honestly I don't think but 1% of the people who receive such things use them properly. I have seen so many people pitching "free money" and other justify it buy saying..well if I don't take it... someone will or...it will do good. That's why I express my feelings here.

The 401K? uh didn't we learn that lesson yet?

The lessons are farming are vast, but the good lessons teaching would sell fewer newspapers. no offence, but who wants to be told how to live the poor farmers.

Do you know why a farmer looks so relaxed in all those depictions? HE IS BROKE and he's ok with the fact that he is BROKE. He has allways been broke. His father was broke.... He isn't dreaming about things because he can't afford them. The smart farmers don't look for the easy way. They just go on patching and fixing. Saying...look at what I did with this stuff.

Who brags about getting free government money? well I can think of politions, lawyers, scoundrels, and lazy dead weights on human kind.

Farming teaches more lessons that I wish to site...but the son of the farmer will go on to apply those lessons to other things and be happy. He will be happy when his used car is paid for and his showy classmate is displaying his debts by driving a new car he can't fix himself.

The lessons of work on the farm also contribute to the financial stability.
On the farm you have no Clock.... you don't work till 5 and go home.

So who do you think they want to hire? the man who works till 5 or the man who works till he's done?

Who do you think will earn more?

This is the cycle of farming. off farm work lures the son away to earn more, make more and not find himself covered in poo and hand me down clothes at the end of the day... do you think you'll go back to poverty and farm?

So who fills the void? Who buys the farm??

those who take free money from uncle Sam.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Drawbar — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 03:23:33 GMT

I agree pretty much WOS...

In the following years when the economy comes back, and the baby-boomers in the trades have 401k's with money in them again, they will certainly retire by the droves and leave the trades very short on help.

On the farm we are already seeing it...one guy last week stopped in asking if he could milk cows. We were shocked because two years ago he did a heifer barn as a carpenter and charged $18 an hour as a carpenter. He hung his head and said he had no work and was willing to work for $10 as a farm hand. And yeah now we have to turn people away all the time...people that last year would not have stopped down to a farmers level.

I still think farming subsidizes are fine WOS...when used appropriately they can get some stuff done around the farm that you would just not do otherwise. Everyone downstream gains from that. And a lot of the conservation grants too only pay 75% so it is up to the farmer to cough up the other 25%, or stretch the budget so that the project is completed to specifications, but was done frugally.

Overall the USDA has the highest rating for efficiency of any federal agency. A lot of that efficiency stems from how the money has to go through a couple of working groups before it is passed out. With such local input, the money tends to be well spent. A few times it slips through the cracks, but some of us ole tight wads rein in the wasteful checks when it comes to this county anyway.

I did go to a meeting on Wednesday that was quite upsetting. A lady who produces videos on healthy cooking wanted Fed Money for some video cameras so she could produce more shows. She featured local foods and wanted to reverse diabetes and obesity in Maine, and while that was a lofty goal, I was not sure it was a good return on investment. It just seemed no credible way to gauge whether people would watch the show and change their lifestyle habits. Yeah what she was doing gave you that warm fuzzy feeling but was it good for society? With no way to measure that, why should society pay for it.

Anyway I started to bring this up, but was quickly told I was out of order because the committee did not want to hear that. Obviously its no place for someone who is conservative in nature. But in so many ways this is the very board I need to be on because changing this wasteful spending is what society needs, but as you know WOS...how much time do we really have to devote to battling wasteful spending by attending meetings? The ones that have that kind of time, thrive on getting something for free because that is what they survive on.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

wallsostone — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:11:56 GMT

I'm going to laugh my fanny off here.

The average age of a man in the trades is 56...the average age of someone who get's dirty at work is that high. why? people are LAZY!
They have been told that if you don't sit at a computer or be a doctor you'll be poor.

Make? everyone knows that books can be made to show profit or not..
How good is your accountant?

If you are not making big money as a youth, when do you have it? After your kids are born? after you are married? After your father/mother is in a home?

Take all the money washed away by foolish youth, beer, dope, college degrees in under-water-basket-weaving and BS and put that to land and work and what do you get? well you get 3 businesses and a farm and no debt.. oh wait that's just me????

Again I will site my own area as it's what I'm seeing now. Gas..rough necks...wind men working men.. all under the age of 30 and clearing 150 K a year in 9 months or MORE! no debs, no kids nothing. The answer is WORK.. not sobbing to a nanny government.

This brings me to the second part of my over all point.

The young man who grows up understanding the value of a dollar will not need sugar daddy's welfare.

The young men I grew up with...and the most wealthy men in my area are not only the most understated and grounded men I know, but farm raised.
If you want it, earn it. Take farmers hours and apply them to honest business and you'll be shocked at the money you make.

I've seen the hand out upstarts who take all the free rides to farming and/or small business. They not only produce less, they are more likely to fail. They waste tax money and resources that could have been better left in the pockets of those who knew how to make money.

I'm only 31 but I have known young men who had there own farms before they were 27 and NO daddy didn't give them anything but good lessons.

Lessons like don't run up a credit card debt, don't be idle and so on.
the lessons of farm life are greater than were eggs come from and what chicks look like when they hatch.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Drawbar — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:59:05 GMT

I agree Johnny and it does not sound like you are aware that in order to qualify for subsidies, you do have to make 1000 dollars in profit every year, so the for profit part of your post is already accounted for. There are other eligibility requirements as well.

As for the age, I agree there too, and did you know the national average of farmers is something like 62 years old? The average age of farmers in Maine...the lowest in the country...is still 55 so its an aging occupation. Another important statistic is that 60% of the farmers out there are hobby farmers, but 80% of the food comes from the other 40% of the farmers (full time farmers).

What does that all mean??? Very few farmers feed a very large part of this population. This will not change as the vast majority of hobby farmers die off or grow tired of the hard work and lack of pay. Then there are poor ole guys like me and WOS who keep slugging away at what we do because that is what we have always done.

(I wish I had more to reply to this but today is a very busy day for me again...road building you know).

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

JohnnyAd — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 06:33:39 GMT

I have been reading what Draw and WOS have been saying and wanted to chime in here.

I think "Hobby" farm can be and is thought of in two ways.

1) Hobby - For fun, self fulfillment, not for profit (not a self sustaining profit anyway)

2) Small farm - For profit, 1st steps, foundation, new farmer

I agree with WOS if someones is doing type 1. If they are not really doing a farm to be a "farmer" then they really shouldnt get grants or subsidies.

I mean, my hobby is working on old tractors. No one is going to give me free money to play in my garage on old tractors just for fun :P

On the other hand if they are type 2, novice, learning, building, working hard, then they should qualify for some programs/grants. They not be able to run with the big boys on hundreds of acres but they are building something, they are contributing to the food chain, and they are or will become reliant on that income just as a larger farmer is.

I would also like to say its not just baby boomers who have gotten a new interest in farming. Its a lot of people in there late 20's early 30's that are giving things a go too. I myself am only 30, almost 31 :( I never started thinking about farming until a few years ago. The more I have been working on it the more people I meet around my age that have also become very interested in farming and each have started in their own ways.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Drawbar — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:55:48 GMT

WOS...in some ways you are right, but the small farmer/hobbyist is nothing to really fear. Its simply a product of the baby boom, with so many baby boomers beginning to retire and a renewed interest in farming, its on;y natural that this generation who are cash-laden with retirement funds are going to buy up 20 acre plots and farm, but the age will certainly catch up with them, and with any hope they will like the farming lifestyle and pen up that farmland with farmland preservation clauses and our generation will buy or lease that farmland and continue to farm with even larger farms. You have to realize that the population bubble is simply inching along the timeline of this earth. Last year saw the lowest birth rate of the last 50 years so as the baby boomers die off, there will be a glutton of space for us.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

wallsostone — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 04:44:14 GMT

well politely,

These are not full time farmers... they are novist.They are hobbyists paying for there fun with tax money. Want to benefit everyone? don't waste tax money. If a true need is to be met, then it should be no trouble to find backing or make enough money back to pay off an investment.

If it's not, then why build it? There is no honest incentive.

It's time to weed the fields. We have so many programs that anyone can just start fishing for them, digging us a deeper and deeper hole.

why not let the markets do there job? trashy land sells for less. So if someone with a work ethic wants to farm, they could invest in trashy land and then with there own hard work, fix it. If it's a lagit business the costs can be written off. But if the idea falls threw...or the business owner, like any business owner becomes weak of heart and fails.. well no reward.

WE have many "business grants" handed out here in PA that NEVER became anything. Many people get grant money and then never perform the promises they made. This system just keeps adding and adding grants and perks...mostly to get votes

Remember when people got money the old fashioned way?.... they earned it.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Drawbar — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:12:21 GMT

Well WOS that is because you are looking at subsidies purely from the fiscal point of things and that is just not how they work. First off they were voted in by legislatures and while my opinion of those people are not always high, they do have a ethical obligation to vote on measures that they feel their constituents will benefit from. The real question is...can I benefit from some of these programs? In a lot of cases the answer is yes, but it is one silly farmer that constantly changes his farm plan to grab money every time a new farm bill comes out. You'll go insane trying to do that.

The other part of the equation is the size of the farm. Now 70 acres is pretty small, but if that land base meets the requirements of 1000 bucks per year in profit...then they are entitled to subsidies assuming that land was in the USA. In Canada where farms are far more subsidized, so they can probably get even more. And they probably should get involved.

I am not sure what the rainfall and absorption rate in Manitoba is, but in Maine those 70 acres would produce a run-off of 3 million gallons of water. It behooves every citizen whether they have 1 acre or 12000 to ensure soil stays in place and water quality is up. The problem is, it's pretty easy to deal with smaller acreages, but higher acreage takes a lot more money because the problems increase with each acre. The government knows private land is private land, BUT they also know farmers and large land owners cannot invest in conservation measures because of the costs involved. In my case they are not giving me money to build a road to get out crops, they are giving me money to build a road that is crossing a water resource, and they want that road build to stringent specifications so that that road does not contribute to water issues down stream. They control that by helping to pay for it. With the money comes strict design and help.

The fact that these farms are simply here means they should be farmed with conservation in mind. It does not matter if a 5 acre hobby farm has excess animals and is polluting the local stream, the fact that the local stream is polluted is the real problem. That is why I promote these government conservation programs and try to get more small farms involved in them. By getting the word out that help is out there, small farms can improve conservation methods and get soil and water quality improved downstream of them. Ironically the large farms have been involved for years in these programs so they got their act cleaned up...now it is time for the smaller farms to get involved.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

wallsostone — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:05:00 GMT

no disrespect ment, but is someone is going to just hobby it... do they deserve subsidy? I mean really? haven't we given enough to people who don't honestly do something? I'm talking in general here. but really..

to be fair...let me make an abstract...totally bananas example to keep it light. If you own a business, and your brother in law tells you he's racing on the dirt track every Saturday. The track has no fans... and he never wins the race.. then he asks " will you sponsor my car 100%" Come on.. you won't make enough back to justify the money spent.. no matter who the driver is.

Same with hobby stuff. Why the heck should a persons fun and amusement be assisted with tax money when the world is in the tank? No one will benefit but toe one who get's the check.

We have enough expenses paid for with grant money from producing agrabusiness. We have more farmers now than we need. If you find a deal... I'm glad..and I'm very happy your spending free time farming, but at the same time...the market is flooded and the nations coffers are not.

It's not like we need to lower the price of farm products any more.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Drawbar — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:33:26 GMT

There are very few "unfarmable" acres really in the actual sense of the word. If you need a reminder of this go to Downeast Maine and look over the blueberry barrens there. 12000 acre fields that are wide open and nothing but rock...car sized rock and yet blueberries grow there. That is because blueberries grow on a mulch and thin soil so you can grow a crop on almost no soil at all. But that is the thing...you must match the crop to the soil. You aren't going to grow carrots on that kind of soil that's for sure! (LOL)

On the other end of the extreme is wetland, but I have seen some desperate people stick livestock on some very wet pastures that are indeed hydric. Since this is private farmland, you can pretty much do anything you wish...but here is the thing. If you do farm on soil the NRCS considers hydric...you are out of any government subsidies. Before you scoff that off too quick, that means everything, from the simple wool deficiency loan program that pays you for your wool, to the higher end issues of irrigation. In farming it is kind of silly to shoot yourself in the foot too early.

Anything between those two extremes are indeed farmable. Now the NRCS does allow you to farm hydric soil, you just cannot disturb the soil. So even if you have acres upon acres of swamp, if you are persistent enough and can find some markets for such odd commodities as frog legs and turtle meat...well you could indeed "farm" the wetland. You just may not be able to farm it in the conventional sort of way.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

barnspider — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:13:39 GMT

Sounds great! It sounds like you may have a good opportunity to learn haying from someone who's done it for some time. Thats always good from the trouble shootin end of it. We bought 20 acres 3 years ago and had to buy equipment to do it. Not cheap, even the old stuff. We have a rancher living next door who loaned us his swather when ours wasn't ready to use in time to harvest our oats. My husband traded some mechanics when the neighbor needs help in that regard. I would suggest testing the soil, making sure you have the water available for the crops you want to grow and spray for weeds early. We started out with oats to improve our soil. Next year we are going with alfalfa because you don't have to seed it again for 5-7 years. Read, Read and Read before you plant. Best wishes in you success

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Cathleen — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:20:03 GMT

Exactly meadowbrook! There's 52 acres just outside town that is a S-T-E-A-L! Or is it? Nowhere in Santa Barbara County are you going to find 52 acres for $475,000! So what's the catch? Well about 1/3 of the land is being held by the Feds as a habitat for the tiger salamander! They can't GIVE the land away!

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

medowbrook — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 07:47:12 GMT

Or is it a case as with some programs were you are not able to do anything with it based on a program. In some cases the land deal means the lands stays open, but you can't do ANYTHING, Not even spray for weeds or mow.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

Cathleen — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:26:43 GMT

My immediate thought is who cares if it's not farmable, it's 70 acres away from my current neighbors from hell. LOL!

But seriously, you need to know what makes it un-farmable. Then I would look into grass raised livestock, free range poultry, and raised bed gardening.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

medowbrook — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:59:06 GMT

I this land in a gov program?

Locally the state has given people the right to put land into programs that would require whoever uses the land in the end for something other than a brushlot, will pay the backed tax. This can result in a hard sale for the broker. It's nice to be able to hold onto your land via a lower tax agreement, however it is harder to bring that land back into production should the need show it's self.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

NEAlaMADhouse — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 06:21:24 GMT

We are also extremely interested in how this turns out for you. We are embarking on a similar venture and more than willing to share and learn from others!

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

BOOGER4 — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:38:06 GMT

first thing you need to do is to find out why it's labeled "not farmable" or some such.

until you now that, you're not going to know enough to make an intelligent decision- and could make a disastrous deciion.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

artbysue — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:28:47 GMT

Look into grass based farming and rotation grazing. I am assuming they said it is not farmable, meaning it is not suited for row crops maybe because of poor drainage? What is the terrain?

We had an 80 acre farm in which we raised grass fed beef, sheep,poultry in addition to milk goats and horses. There are lots of things you can do with a grass based farm but of course if you have the animals the expense goes into fencing and shelter.

Joel Salatin has lots of books on grass based farming. Start small-- let the farmer make his hay. Learn and get your feet wet in small ways at first. Fence off a portion, build a small shelter if you don't have outbuildings and try out different types of livestock to see what works for you. A couple goats and some laying hens and a small garden for your family will keep you busy and let you see what is involved in the day to day care and maintence of a farm.

good luck, sounds like a great place!

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

brody — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:31:31 GMT

Congratulations first off !

Secondly if I were you I'd be tempted to start very small - in fact in some wyas we are in a similar position. We have 107 acres - much of which is in hay. For next summer we will sell the hay standing to the same farmer who took it off this year. (we are not adverse to a long term deal along that nature either)

There are a couple of fields that are unused - and we are starting small with those - planting a couple of fruit trees, starting a hive, starting a small herb garden for commercial purposes (Our house is actually not on the land but 3 minutes away - I have a large veggie garden there or I'd start a veggie garden too). I also run competitive agility so have set aside land for that purpose too.

If I were you I might add chickens or a pair of goats to start with livestock. Honestly the bulk of the land can stay in hay and still give you an idea of small farming - perhaps a couple of acres right around the house might be a starting point?

cheers, and welcome

andrea

www.vareharrifarm.blogspot.com

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

opel — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:30:42 GMT

I'm in southern manitoba and have almost 120 acres dedicated for hay production and have to question your earning potential.

These parts will get about $25 for a 2000 lb round bale minus production cost, i might produce 70-80 bales per cut, maybe 2 cuts in the summer

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

hoosierfarmersdaughter — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:08:42 GMT

Is your land real hilly? I'm guessing when you were told that the land was not farmable, they mean not tillable, due to erosion concerns. If there's pasture, then you could raise most types of livestock, depending on water, shelter needs, etc. Or you could bale the hay, if there's hay and not plain grass. There's not much nutrients or palatability in dry old grass. Plant a hay field of alfalfa (it's a legume that's good for the soil), timothy, brome, orchardgrass, etc for a mixed hay field. I don't know much about hay - I've only helped with baling and feeding my whole life. I don't know what grows best northwest of Indiana. When you hire someone to custom-bale, you'll get more respect if you sound like you know what you're talking about. Therefore, "hay" is a noun, not a verb. "Bale" is the correct noun and spelling. Let us know if you make $10,000 on 70 acres of hay and every farmer in the country will produce more hay! I'm sorry, but I question the integrity of whomever quoted you that figure. Central Indiana, with a strong hay market due to all the horse people, averages $3 per small bale, 2-4 cuttings a year. The quality of hay varies with the cutting. I don't know what yield you can expect for 70 acres, or in your area.

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

chiggins1977 — Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:25:20 GMT

Hi,

I like your enthusiam for starting your own hobby farm. I am fortunate enough to have some land in the family that i hope to move to and farm soon. It is much like your land, we have 170 acres of agricultural land in Quebec, half of which is hayed and the rest is fairly dense bush. I am intereste in using about 20-30 acres of the this land for some sort of hobby farm. I am looking into the best way to make a hobby farm somewhat profitable but more for the feeling of self-sufficiency. My idea is to have a mix of livestock, vegetables and herbs and spices, keeping all of the above ORGANIC of course... it's a bit more work but the satisfaction of real fresh organic foods will far outweigh the extra work... not to mention the cost of fertilizers and herbicides.
Let me know how your land is coming along. I am curious to see what comes of your venture.

Thanks,
Craig

RE: we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

cs5becky — Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:04:40 GMT

wow. please post updates. I'm so curious to know how you do and what you decide. I think that you have a wonderful opportunity to experience so very much. have you considered writing a blog as you go? I'd be a dedicated reader.

we are buying a 70 acre land and i have ?'s

jenniferlee — Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:01:59 GMT

Hi,
Within the next 6 month's we will have moved into are land... It's quite large but the people who lived there previously said that the land is not farmable.... and of my (little) understanding of this means that no i cannot grow crops in large amounts on it... The land in situated in western Manitoba and hay grows on it. My husband works full time and i am willing to take advantage of the luck we have owning a property of this size. Now we were offered to get it hayed and we would make about 10000$ that we would slip 50% with the person willing to hay it and sell the bails. But i was thinking that maybe i could hay only half of it and with the other half start a hobby farm. I'm not looking for a large profit at this point but simply to start small and maybe grow as the profit grows. Now, of course all my friends give me ideas of what they think i should do... i would like to know more and some actual real idea's and costs and how it all works... anyways i thank you in advance