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RE: haying the small farm way?

wallsostone — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:37:56 GMT

as with all things I'd say my area is the exception to the rule. WE don't do many crops in our county that others do outside here.... for reasons based on markeet and land. we just have far to high a demand for milk down here in NYC, Philly, Buff and pitts. I'm in the middle of two major highways and a major rail spur so milk is the deall beef #2 Drive 2 hours west and your in tader country. 2 hours north and your in the Finger lakes and wine country.

RE: haying the small farm way?

Drawbar — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:38:08 GMT

No, nothing stays forever with farming. That is because all it takes is someone with some land and some ambition to make incredible changes. Farmers around here often think that dairy farming has been the thing here forever too, but its just not true. Maybe in the last 50 years, but we have had chicken farms, potato farms, and of course sheep farms well before that. Get someone with some serious ambition, someone who is willing to break from the rest of the group and set off on their own, and things can really change.

RE: haying the small farm way?

wallsostone — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:40:42 GMT

you could get that sort of a deal from time to time, but things don't change like that here. it's been cow country for ever.. probably stay that way. But if it's to good to be true it is.

Heck if you can get stuff free...put it on crags list and sell it to these hobby farmers. LOL.

RE: haying the small farm way?

Drawbar — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:18:28 GMT

Around here anyway where farmers are always getting bigger, so smaller equipment is always available and not just because it is junk. We decided years ago to not sell any of our old equipment, and there are a number of times people have shown up to borrow this or that, take pictures on how to put their machines back together, etc.

If I wanted too, I probably could get a working group of haying equipment for free just going around local farms and pulling them off the stone walls. On my own farm I have a hay conditioner, and hay loader and I could have got that square baler off my Grandfather if I wanted it. A mower and a rake would have completed the operation and are easy to find.

A little off topic perhaps, but I got a potato digger off a guy this week. We farmed potatoes for 118 consecutive years and I tracked our old potato harvester down to a farm one town away. The deal was simple, I would give the guy the same amount of money he bought it off my Grandmother for...in other words free.

Being creative in farming beats money any day in farming...it just takes work.

RE: haying the small farm way?

wallsostone — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:14:17 GMT

well if you can fix things your self.. great. most people here don't seem to
I would not compare a log splitter to a bailer..but whatever.

Personally I'd say that equipment not used regularly by those who know so many things draw and I will take for granted will break more often than not.

The worst thing for a car do is sit.

old used iron and only sitting in a tractor once in a time is not like lots of practice on equipment that gets a good work out and lots of time. I never order parts on the net. just to many ways that can go wrong.. but hey if your getting parts every day and have all that worked out... great.

they are probably getting rid of that iron cuz it's worn out and it costs 7 bucks a bail to make it.

most of that old iron in my area was scrapped out.

RE: haying the small farm way?

JohnnyAd — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:51:11 GMT

wallsostone (8/10/2009)yea.. that's just not realistic on so many levels. Who is going to fix it?

I would fix it myself of course. I am an engineer and hobby mechanic. I have yet to find a piece of equipment I couldn't fix and use. My first tractor was a seized up non working '62 725. A little work and she worked great, traded her for a nice log splitter after I got a bigger tractor (that I also had to fix).

[quote]wallsostone (8/10/2009)
who's got the parts?
[/quote]

You can find parts for just about anything on the internet. Anything special can be done at the local machine shop.

[quote]wallsostone (8/10/2009)
why are they not doing what you plan to do?
[/quote]

Well for starts I am not planning on anything, just thinking things through for the fun of it. Why are they not doing it? They dont want to be farmers? They are to busy with family or other jobs? Who knows, I didnt talk to them.

[quote]wallsostone (8/10/2009)
I mean heck if you can get 6 bucks a bail with that set up and so on...then why hasn't the farmer smart enough to fix the bailer doing the same thing and selling it?
[/quote]
Bales around here are $5.50 at the local feed store, other people sell it directly for between $3 and $5 a bale.

http://newlondon.craigslist.org/grd/1317116504.html ($5.75)
http://newlondon.craigslist.org/grd/1315462460.html ($3.25, second hand)

[quote]wallsostone (8/10/2009)
and what kind of hay is it?
[/quote]

The last stuff I bought was Alfalfa I believe.

[quote]wallsostone (8/10/2009)

[quote]wallsostone (8/10/2009)
I'm sure that you know not all hay is created the same. I'd never pay that for hay. I'm at like... a buck a bail.[/quote]

I know not all hay is the same, I am talking semantics of my area. Not necessarily a business plan or course of action. I was more showing it is feasible to hay with a modest investment not shelling out tens of thousands of dollars.

RE: haying the small farm way?

Drawbar — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:56:07 GMT

Around here bales of hay are cheap too. You can get a 5x5 round bale for 10 bucks and has at least 10 bales in it, if not more. Hay is indeed pretty cheap here.

I do disagree with WOS because if you are only haying a few acres, then your breakdowns will be fairly small.

But the cost of haying equipment is indeed cheap. My Grandfather just gave away a haybaler to the Amish for free. He even offered to haul it to them, but they insisted on doing so for themselves. Why you would move the baler yourself after someone offered to haul it to you for free, is beyond me, but they are indeed different. Besides it was a John Deere haybaler so I am not really sure about its value (LOL).

I might rethink the free hay ground though. If you can feed your animals without paying silly property taxes, then you are ahead. Even if you offer the landowner 10 cents a bale in stumpage prices, they are ahead, and so are you. That is they get something for their land, and it is an improvement to the soil, but at the same time you get feed for your livestock. Besides you never know when you will acquire it. Sometimes when a neighbor sees you are doing a better job of using their land then they are...they are more adapt to sell it to you. Best management farming practices are typically appreciated.

RE: haying the small farm way?

wallsostone — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:22:18 GMT

yea.. that's just not realistic on so many levels. Who is going to fix it? who's got the parts? why are they not doing what you plan to do?

I mean heck if you can get 6 bucks a bail with that set up and so on...then why hasn't the farmer smart enough to fix the bailer doing the same thing and selling it?

and what kind of hay is it?

I'm sure that you know not all hay is created the same. I'd never pay that for hay. I'm at like... a buck a bail.

RE: haying the small farm way?

JohnnyAd — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:42:10 GMT

I have been toying with the idea of making hay myself. I dont have the land to do it though and while I am sure my neighbors would be more than happy for me to hay their fields I think I will hold off till I buy more land.

If you watch CraigsList, eBay, and FreeCycle you can get most of what you need pretty cheap.

I have a 69 2210 tractor which I use for mowing, tilling, snow blowing, etc. I can add a sickle bar mower (to cut hay) for about $200 - $250. That would leave the need for a rake and a baler if loose hay wasnt an option.

Right now both these pieces of equipment are on my local Craigslist pretty cheap. $500 each:

http://newlondon.craigslist.org/grd/1315139029.html
http://newlondon.craigslist.org/grd/1314761990.html

So you figure you can probably talk them down a little, plus misc extra stuff for repairs and tune ups I could be haying for about $1500.

Now buying hay is about $6 a bale. I use 1 bale every two months, so essentially I spend about $36 a year on hay. So it would take about 41 years for my $1500 investment to be paid for under my current usage. Not exactly worth it. However if I could sell the remaining hay at $4 a bale and say I hay about 2 acres it will have paid for itself in about 2 years.

RE: haying the small farm way?

Drawbar — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:53:09 GMT

I would love to find my Grandfather's old scythe, but I think he put it down onetime and we never found it after that. The good news is I have it limited to a 40 acre a field! (LOL) All seriousness though, I wish I had one. It could not be any harder on the hips then swinging my weedwacker around the knock weeds from underneath the electric fences. It just kills my hips.

Anyway I think the top notch scythe maker is in Maine...Perry, Maine to be exact and I think she advertises in Hobby Farms? This woman's husband started the company, but then he died and so his wife kept the business going. She promotes her scythes at the local fair here and does very well...a huge following. It helps that they are made from top quality steel, and that they are custom fitted to your body.

There is a movement here to do organic grain production with a local gristmill supposedly going in soon??? Obviously small grain growers cannot afford combines so I see scythes as being sold a lot in the near future. I should get one, but I should get 100 more sheep too...there is always something shiny out there isn't there for us ole farmers/crows to buy (LOL)

RE: haying the small farm way?

ValerieJean — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:07:00 GMT

You guys are full of tips. I have no need to make hay, even when the sun is shining. However, in the future holds sheep so there then will be a need and on and off I wonder how to do it on a small scale.

Guess I need to get those scythe muscles going!!!

RE: haying the small farm way?

wallsostone — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:31:11 GMT

Get a hydrometer and know when you can bail.

RE: haying the small farm way?

SGF — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:01:52 GMT

Last week I was at a friend's place in SC. We put up about 500 bales using horses in front of a 1930's McCormick Deering #9 sickle bar mower. The hay was then tedded with a motorized tedder that the horses pulled behind a cart. After that we used a side delivery rake to rake rows. My rake is a JD horse drawn and probably from the 40's but there is no real difference in them from then to now. Temp. was in the 90's and VERY hard work. If there are just two of you, like on my farm, it is a serious workout with the threat of bad weather always looming. We used a 1960 Ford baler pulled by a dually Dodge. My friend doesn't own a tractor. I like the idea of loose hay but my expertise of what is and isn't dry enough is shaky. I am always scared of fire, not having enough storage room, and having issues with properly cycling the hay where I use the older stuff first.

If you don't have or want to use horses, a small tractor with a sickle bar mower, tedder, and side deliver rake would probably do it. We cut coastal bermuda (grass hay) and the old rotating ground drive tedders do poorly with it. We have to use a basket style which is much pricer. If you have a tractor and can use the rotating tedder you can probably spend $1500 for the equipment you need if you look around. Balers are a curse as something is always wrong with them. See if you can find someone who will (custom) bale a small field for a decent price. otherwise if you buy an older 1960's baler most will tell you to get an old Ford/New Holland.

RE: haying the small farm way?

Mbrook — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:43:49 GMT

yea sue..I get blocked every time I turn around. Don't know who I ticked off this week.

I was thinking about the whole hay thing....
this year everyone wrapped the bails and I'm the only farmer on the hill with first cutting still standing. we can make far more hay than before and have higher quality.... BUT

All that plastic???

RE: haying the small farm way?

Sue Weaver — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:07:14 GMT

Medow...is that you? I've been gone a week and now you have a new name!

Sue

RE: haying the small farm way?

Mbrook — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 05:59:38 GMT

far to labor intensive. Loose hay also sits like batter in the barn. Pushing out your barn walls. Imagine how fast you can go to the mow and toss down
200 lbs of dry hay, you know it's about 200 lbs... now do that with loose hay?

The cycle bar is alright, however the smallest thing can break it. just a wire or a small stone between those blades and the points and you got trouble.

We have dry hay to do, but the first cutting was all off this road, around 1,000 acres total in 3 days. If the rain keeps up, we could get 3 cuttings in a year.

RE: haying the small farm way?

Drawbar — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 04:22:35 GMT

I was kind of thinking the other day that it is surprising that more small farmers do not go back to utilizing loose hay. About the only reason hale bales came into vogue was because it helped limit the amount of storage needed. Now that we have equipment (both big and small) that are pretty expensive, and at the same time, hoop buildings are relatively inexpensive, it seems to me a small farmer could build a pretty big hoop barn for what it would cost to buy a baler.

They say a scythe can knock down 3 acres a day, so at a bare minimum in investment a small farmer could flatten 3 acres of hay one day, then harvest it the second even if it meant hooking a simply trailer up to the Saab or garden tractor. 3 acres at 4 tons to the acre is 12 tons of hay...not bad for a few days of work.

For the lazy farmer like myself that is more creative and lazy, renting a sickle bar mower from a rental place would be easier then the hand scythe. A estate rake would cost you 300 bucks but could be pulled with a garden tractor to bunch the dried hay into rows. A really lazy person would build a minaturized version of the old hay elevators they used to have that pulled the hay from the field up into the truck.

The interesting thing is that the hay quality would be better because the longer the hay is, the better roughage it makes for ruminant animals. Hale bales are cut so some hay is inevitably shorter versus that of loose hay.

Overall I would think it would be easier and cheaper to go back to using loose hay then hay bales even if it was mechanized somewhat. (Just a thought on the subject this morning).

RE: haying the small farm way?

Drawbar — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:49:13 GMT

It was warm today as I went shopping for groceries and I thought, "maybe its time to take the long handles off? I am still wearing them, but then again on June 1st we got frost. That is unusual even for us.

I had a great uncle that used to say, "I take my long handles off on July 3rd and put them back on July 5th. He was not far off the mark. LOL

RE: haying the small farm way?

medowbrook — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 08:31:39 GMT

I've taken to use'n the electric rope and fiber glass posts.

what a dream.

Then don't even challenge it any more. Also, what you put up with in Maine is far more harsh than PA. Your snow melt yet?

i bet owning a pair of shorts is almost a waste of money, unless you put them on in Nov.

RE: haying the small farm way?

Drawbar — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 01:39:39 GMT

There is nothing wrong with that Meadowbrook, as it is efficient. In my case, grazing that corn would have resulted in far more work putting up a fence and getting the sheep to the corn versus harvesting it. But I admit it costs be some diesel fuel to grab it...and time.

The biggest issue I have with grazing corn stalks versus chopping it, is that the livestock will eat a lot more of it when its chopped up. Palletability it's called. (Sorry my Mozilla won't give me the correct spelling for that word). Of course the type of corn grown makes a big difference too. Here we grow corn for dairy cow feed so the corn is of a variety that has a softer stalk so the entire thing can be enjoyed by the cows. Corn destined for human consumption will have a stalk that is not quite so sweet tasting to the cows and sheep.

RE: haying the small farm way?

medowbrook — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 23:02:56 GMT

I know a fellow, he's some very very very distant relation actually. Is so stinking lazy. Good man, but if he can find a way around something he will. He let's his corn just stand, and then tuns the stock out in it. he actually sews corn. Why detach the spreader when you are just going to put down grass later

RE: haying the small farm way?

Drawbar — Sun, 31 May 2009 16:10:15 GMT

I got some fields last fall that were in their 3rd-crop-prime and teeming with alfalfa. It was breeding season for the sheep so I wanted to flush them. I prefer I quality natural feed over flushing them with grain so I needed a way to get the fresh cut grass to the sheep.

We sold our haying equipment years ago because we no longer hay (silage) so I used what I had. I bushogged the grass first. Then raked the stuff up with a hand rake, loaded it in the back of a trailer and fed it to the sheep like that. It was slow but my sheep LOVED it.

Now the corn was even more crude. Last year we had a two; back to back hurricanes followed by a Gale, and the fields were MUDDY. In fact in some places the boys on our dairy farm just left standing corn in the fields. There was just no way the chopper and the trucks could wallow through these areas. Now I am some frugal, so I saw this standing corn and figured I could feed my sheep on that.

I cut the stalks down with a chainsaw. Threw them by hand onto the back of a trailer. Then stored the full length stalks under a tarp. When it was time to feed out the corn, I would run the stalks through my small 5 HP brush chipper/shredder. What came out the spout was the same quality corn silage that comes out of our ¼ million dollar chopper (for the dairy farm).

While I was at this hand-foraging venture, I went around a few fields and picked up all the corn cobs that had dropped. What happens is the chopper will often dislodge the lower cobs onto the ground rather then swallow it up. A little bit of time and I had a trailer full of pure cobs. I threw them into my chipper and fed that to the sheep.

In all my corn venture netted me two months worth of winter feeding before I had to resort to feeding grass again. It reduced my grain bill as well and nothing went to waste. (Here is a picture of that adventure! :) )

RE: haying the small farm way?

medowbrook — Sat, 23 May 2009 10:49:47 GMT

well I do and I don't miss it.

here you were sent to the hay mow, farm family or no... you did it. It was like a right of passage.

back in the day, we'd play more hay.

One can make any job fun if you add a game to it. So we would get "on the wagon" or "get in the mow" like picking teams for kickball. I Loved and still love to be " on the wagon".

The fresh load of Hay was hauled in beside the barn and 2 men on the wagon and 4 in the mow... someone would yell out in the haymow and the boys on the wagon would yell back "her she goes!" plugging in the elevator.

Now you start slow and once the guys in mow got stuff in place, they would start the game with "more hay".. .a taunt.. like, Bring it on...

So the taunts would start.. the wagon team would throw hay on that elevator as fast as they could. They had strategy and tactics. Who did what, how you threw the bail on.. how to get the most bails off in the shortest time. Just so you could overwhelm the men stacking hay in the barn. The men in the barn kept taunting, showing you that they could keep up with whatever you had. Sometimes you would just make them stop yelling, and stack the number of bails..and Sometimes the hay would just pile and pile on them in the mow until they yelled

"Uncle..shut her down.. stop stop!" and you knew that they had so many bails coming off that elevator that they were in a mountain of hay.
But if you didn't bury them, it was like loosing any other game.

This is a blood sport. You didn't get off the wagon to get a drink or a band aid. I unloaded countless bails with blood flowing freely from my nose due to the heat of the work.. sweat filling my eyes and so many splinters of grass in my arms and under my fingernails it was unreal. Sometimes a friend would pass by and with out showing the men in the mow, he'd jump on the wagon and help unload, then vanish. Helping you win...

Oh how wonderful... the yelling, the hooting.. people could hear it all over the place. The radio blasting, the gallons of water and soda.. the big meals we packed down... and we unloaded 3-4 heaping loads of hay an hour day after day for the whole summer.

it would carry over to other farms. Classmates and friends who worked other farms would meet at the hang out's and county fairs and taunt..bust chops saying,

"we'll come show you how it's done"...as if it were a gang confrontation or a high school football game. But all in good fun and the spirit of youth.

I remember summers working next door and after getting home, I'd lay down in the mudroom, work boots still on and pass out like a drunk. Now and ten you'd find strength to go out.. see friends and show the girls your big arms and your tan. But you always had the bragging rights at the end of the summer. Who was king of the mountain.

And then the farmers with daughters got way more work. I don't know a boy my age who did not spent at least a week in a hay mow trying to impress a girl..... for no pay.

yea I don't want to do it any more like that. I'd rather have a son who comes home with a pocket full of money ($4 a load in 1994) and to tired to spend it. I'll take my place in the pecking order on the baler.

But like many things, I look back on that and think, oh to be that young again. I don't truly want to work that hard every day all day, I don't know if I could. but oh to have the whole of those summers back in there entirety.

RE: haying the small farm way?

Sue Weaver — Fri, 22 May 2009 13:11:17 GMT

John baled hay for three years (in Minnesota) before saying, "We can BUY hay easier and cheaper than this!"

Granted, all of our equipment was well used and though he's very good at fixing things, parts are pricey even from the tractor graveyard, and he was always fixing something on the baling equipment.

And to be honest, stacking hay on the wagon and then in the loft on a hot summer day is NOT something I will ever miss. :o)

Sue

RE: haying the small farm way?

medowbrook — Fri, 22 May 2009 07:54:16 GMT

well a mechanic in our area is going to start you at $40 per hour for ether the small or the high end tractor. Very little can be done in 1 hour.

tractors are simple. I'm going to presume that most of you won't spend enough time on them to "shift on the go" like one would a truck.

If you spend enough time on them, you can shift them without the clutch.
(you can also do this in a tractor trailer if you drive for a living)

So basically what you need to do is start out small and go from that point with an older tractor, OR get an automatic and a good teacher....if I were going to get one, I'd get it now. low low prices....but you are close to me and that means tractors are not as cheap here as i other parts of the world.

Tell you what, if you don't know mechanical stuff....probably you should not try bailing hay. I mean, it's a collection of a lot of little things. I've been at it all my life and I still have a few days were I wonder

"what's going on here???"

but now that I think on it, if I didn't know a lot from time in the field, I'd probably never get anything done.

and there is a reason why this job kills so many people.

RE: haying the small farm way?

CNYrealtor — Fri, 22 May 2009 06:26:50 GMT

Therein lies the problem...many of us are not mechanically inclined, so while a nice Ford 8N can be had for under $2k, the key is how much upkeep will be needed on it as opposed to a newer model...coupled with what equipment is needed (finishing mower, baler) and compatability with the PTO. Plus, I am embarrassed to say, I've never driven a tractor with gears and a clutch...

So things will be interesting once I get home...

RE: haying the small farm way?

medowbrook — Wed, 13 May 2009 17:42:28 GMT

Like I said, no on e can afford new Iron... But the flip side, is one needs some common sense to have old Iron. Folks who don't have the ability to finx stuff on there own could end up in a world of hurt pay'n mechanics all the time. And if you think your car costs you an arm and a leg, imagine your car parts cost twice as much and your car never sees a paved road.

I would also never get new new because of all the computers and "stuff" in them. Once things have big computers, you can't just break them down and fix them on your own. You need a mechanic with a computer system. Just like our cars today. Your at the mercy of your mechanic.

RE: haying the small farm way?

Theona — Wed, 13 May 2009 13:25:07 GMT

Good article, Sue! Thank you. I am going to show it to my husband when he gets home. I think our next step is to get one of those old tractors. We have a brush cutter already and a lot of hay potential around out buildings also. Our neighbor in Washington State used to hay with a scythe. She was amazing. She was from an island in the South Pacific. She told me it didn't have any stores and she was used to growing her own food and having livestock. I should have asked her how to use her scythe before we moved. These days, though scythes are hard to come by. I asked for one at the hardware store and they pointed me towards a weed eater.

RE: haying the small farm way?

Sue Weaver — Wed, 13 May 2009 09:03:54 GMT

Well, all of our equipment is vintage too. It's newer than what we had in MN, though. There, we did everything with a 1947 John Deere tractor and it did the jobs very well indeed. It couldn't bucket snow, so John rigged a snow plow for it and pushed snow with it for almost 22 years. We gave it to a friend when we left and he's still using it on a daily basis all winter long.

Here, John has an old Case diesel named Charlene. I don't know when Charlene was built--I'll have to ask him. She smells nasty (I hate the smell of diesel) and looks bad (I really want to paint her...) but works hard.

Whereas the JD (appropriately named Johnny Popper) was used mainly for snow removal and Charlene for bush hogging, both got/get plenty of other uses such as barn cleaning and so forth.

New stuff has its place but we can't afford it and since John knows how to fix tractors, the older stuff works fine for our needs.

Sue

RE: haying the small farm way?

medowbrook — Wed, 13 May 2009 05:44:21 GMT

HA HA HA HA HA HA

I'm a vintage farmer HA HA HA!

TARRRR----NATION.. I dun Diddn't know I had antiques

This is funny becouse everyone I know has equipment cerca 1970. Sure you get a this or a that new... or new to you. BUT the only people I know who get brand new equipment are broke in two years.

The tractors are 1970's the other tractors are 1950's... the Bailer and the DiskBine are the only two things made after the Carter left office

I thought I was going to see some artical with a guy use'n a horse drawn gizmo or a bunch of folks with hand tools.

WE do 319 ares every year with old Iron like that. Lots to be said for old stuff. I know our equipment inside and out, I can tell you every detail about them and they are paid for.

RE: haying the small farm way?

Sue Weaver — Tue, 12 May 2009 14:00:15 GMT

Here you go: http://www.hobbyfarms.com/crops-and-gardening/making-hay-14902.aspx

Scroll halfway down the article to, "Small-Scale Haymaking our Forefathers' Way". I haven't done it since we moved here but made hay that way in Minnesota many times.

Sue

haying the small farm way?

Theona — Tue, 12 May 2009 11:44:48 GMT

We have a small farm, but do have a couple of acres that can be put to hay. They have a nice crop of weeds comming in right now, so better hay, then weeds. We don't have any equipment to harvest it, though. Do any of you have a similar problem and how do you harvest your hay?