Hobby Farms Forums / Tools and Equipment / HobbyFarms.com Forum Topics / VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT / Latest Posts

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Mini Balers Guy — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:49:46 GMT

Hello,

If your still looking for more information on smaller hay bales please visit www.smallfarminnovations.com they have small compact hay balers that require 18 to 30 hp tractors only. You can also contact Phil at 979-200-1473 for information.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Mini Balers Guy — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:47:58 GMT

Hello,

If your still looking for small farm equipment for 18 to 30 hp tractor check out website: www.smallfarminnovations.com or call Phil Livengood 979-200-0766 -

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

JohnnyAd — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:36:13 GMT

CoxFamily farm (12/25/2009)

Drawbar i just finialy got back to this thread I like your idea of putting a motor on the baler and pulling with the kubota if i can get the baler from my father in law could you happen to be able to suggest the motor I will need for a John Deere 346 Baler I think it would need a clutch and a gear box. What would you suggest.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ag-tractors-machinery/40002-john-deere-336-baler-3.html

Reading this post about the 336 brought back some memories. My dad bought one new with the hydraulic "kicker" back in the mid 70's. We pulled it behind a 'gas' JD 2520 (55-60PTO HP) and if you cranked up the tension to make 60-70 pound bales and had a heavy windrow it worked the 2520 pretty hard. After getting a 4230 (100HP) we used the bigger tractor most of the time, but only around 3/4 throttle, and with 100HP to play with you didn't know it was back there.

I suppose without the kicker 30-40 HP would suffice, but I'd be concerned about having enough weight to control both the baler and a loaded hay wagon. So wow, if you're running a 336 with 30HP that's pretty impressive (but a pretty good load for the tractor).

Ahhh...farming memories. Wish I had a picture of out baler in action. That kicker was really something.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

CoxFamily farm — Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:53:08 GMT

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

walls0stoneIV — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:06:20 GMT

on the other hand you have people like the family that once owned Taylor packing. Local people.. sent there son to college and he did well. When he came home after his graduation, he was taken round the family business.

All the company patted him on the back till he go to his office. A locker on the killing floor. The gave him a knife and the lowest job and said, see you at 5pm. Work your way up.

now who the hell would spend there money on this stuff when they are from an old school family and they come up the hard way like that?

Then Draw, you and I have seen those other families who have money for just 2 or 3 generations...the ones who move to our woods to be farmers..daddy brings them a pocket book full of money they get this crap and then they are gone.

In the depths of this string you'll find people who say these are all the rage in other nations or other sales pitches.

sorry but like you, I'm not going to just sit here and let someone think these are a good idea.

glad we agree draw.. glad we agree.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:59:18 GMT

I agree. The jerks of the world tend to be the spoiled brats that just got money (Britany Spears comes to mind) but take a family that has had money for generations, and they are the nicest people.

Ultimately the market will decide the ultimate fate of the mini-equipment. If there is enough of a market, then they will thrive and do well and most likely be bought our by John Deere or New Holland to add to their lines of equipment. If sales are down they are going to have to cut costs to get the price down where people will buy it. That will most likely start with R@D, but also quality and finally profit. If it hits a point where sales just cannot support the mini-equipment it will just fail to be made any more.

The same can be said for Hobby Farms. I am fortunate to have every issue of Fine Woodworking, from its very first issue in the 1970's, to present day. Over the years I have seen it change with the times, from black and white photos and lots of home-made machines, to the artsy-fartsy stuff of the mid-80's to the period furnature of the late 1990's...it just morophed into what it is today...and what the readers want. And so will Hobby Farms.

Myself I wish someone would recreate the old style Mother-Earth News. Some of the stuff they did in the 1970's was pretty crude, but it was more in line with what I do, the magazine of today however...absolutely no appeal to me as they are grabbing the surbubanite's attention. Backwoods home...as you and I know...they are selling a self-suffcient ideal and nothing practical. For me, Hobby Farms is more practical, but I look to it to morph in the next year or so into a cross between Mother Earth News, and Backwoods Home.

Myself, I don't read a whole lot. I am more of a do-er and just try stuff and ultimately make it work.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

walls0stoneIV — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:01:44 GMT

the trend is getting further and further from those kinds of lives. And in this world, everything must justify it's purchase.

I recently read an article in Business Week about how the Amish were the ideal business model.

another article in Entrepreneur talked of how people are taking the fluff out of restaurants and putting focus on the practical nature of good food and value for a buck.

If hobby farms is marketing to those people who print money, then why have I only found the mag in my local wall mart?....well that isn't totally true, I originally found it in the gas station.

who has that kind of capital, would spending it so foolishly? The world of "I want it so I'll write the check" is gone with Madeoff and the credit card crunch.

So do people want to be hobby farmers with self supporting recreation?
if so they must be frugal to make a low profit at best.

do they want to be LIKE farmers but not really....
that's fine but no farmer I know pisses away money on toys

or do they want to reinvent the wheel with foolish investments like these?

No one is spending like that enough people to say so. If you have money now days, you keep it to your self. It's far more posh to talk of what you got on sale and how normal you are, even if you have millions than not.

most of the time, those who live like they have it all don't have anything to start with.

These little toys are foolish.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:24:35 GMT

Yes but you and I must look at ALL purchases as a return on investment sort of thing. The target audience of Hobby Farms is not you and I WOS...they are for the affluent people that can simply write a check for what they want.

They buy small balers because it makes them feel like they are putting up big bales. They don't actually need big bales, just like they actually don't need to justify the purchase of the mini-baler on a return-on-investment sort of basis.

But to be honest with you, for me the challenge of farming is to get buy by doing things creatively with practically nothing and yet still making a profit. I am proud to say that I have never lost money with sheep thus far. I have had to jump through some hoops to get a little cash flow, but I have always made money on my sheep. But I didn't do that writing checks frivolously either. I think that is the part that people are missing out on...getting by with very little rather then buying your way to the top. Its just like my woodworking, the average age of my tools is over 50 years old and yet I build some cool stuff (train cradle). Some people with brand new shops sponsored by Delta could not build that. I like to use my brain and do things creatively not by using my checkbook.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

walls0stoneIV — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:37:15 GMT

if people could understand practical things, much of this site would not exists. here is simple math

tinny little equipment cost more money than it's worth.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:27:38 GMT

[quote]Mbrook (6/18/2009)

one thing I disagree with...

larger tractors and equipment are more fuel effective than small.[/quote]

It is simple mathematics WOS...if a 100 hp tractor can only power a 10 foot haybine, but burns 5 gallons per hour to do so, and a 190 hp tractor can power a 16 foot haybine and burns 8 gallons per hour, the bigger tractor will only have to make 2 trips around the field compared to the three trips around the field the smaller tractor will need to do to cut the same amount of hay. It may not mean much in a 2 acre field, but when you do 1200 acres of fields, that extra time really adds up to fuel savings.

A few years ago I used my 25 hp Kubota tractor to plow up a small 2 acre field. It took me a 12 hours to do it with a single bottom plow. Now my little tractor is really fuel efficient and burns about 7 gallons a day. So I probably burned closed to 10 gallons to do it.

In contrast, big blue is 400 horsepower and can plow a 7 acre field in just under 25 minutes. In this two acre field it would have taken that tractor about 7 minutes. Even though that tractor consumes more fuel per hour, the amount of work it performs is to much greater that it becomes really efficient. Big Blue is certainly not going to consume 10 gallons of fuel in 7 minutes. In fact we have it calculated out that Big Blue burns about 3/4 of a gallon of fuel per acre...so it is incredibly efficient.

The only way to get that efficiency though is to get what is called the drawbar pull ratio in the 85% range. You do that by matching the implement to the tractor. If I try to put a 14 foot disc harrow behind my Kubota, the spinning tires, constant use of full throttle, heavy weight, etc will mean the implement is too big for my machine and well above the 85% range the drawbar pull should be in. But at the same time, if big blue drags that 14 foot plow behind it, it will be wayyyy too small and the tractor will not be efficient.

This is the mistake most people make. They think they can just upgrade to a bigger tractor, but that is not the case, they have to upgrade ALL their implements in order to be efficient. In my case, I can't afford to buy a 60 hp Kubota...not because I can't afford the tractor...I simply can't afford to change every implement I have to a bigger size. I am better to use the smaller Kubota.

This 85% drawbar pull ratio applies to anything, from garden tractors, to locomotives, to ATV's and big New Holland tractors. The closer you can get the drawbar pull to 85%, the better your efficiency is.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

walls0stoneIV — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:35:30 GMT

I can't imagine why they would not. Who the heck would spend that kind of money on a mini bailer? I mean I got a nice letter from the staff here telling me all about why they push them. But IF I had that kind of green in this economy and I lived in a normal world were you could afford to have farm land that was really farmed.... surrounded by people I had to see every day

(and if you have the kind of $ then you probably have them all as customers)

you'd not want to be seen on them. I mean why not just drive your $100,000 sports car up and down the street.

however there are plenty of average balers for sale in random states of repair.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Politicaldog — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:32:45 GMT

I bought a John Deere 2305 last year and it has been a real work horse around our place. I don't think I can afford the small specialty balers with the prices they want. I did read that I might be able to run an old JD 14T but I'm not real sure. I do know that if I can run the JD 14T I couldn't pull a wagon too. I would be OK with that as we only have 2.5 acres of good alfalfa.

Right now the neighbor cuts and bales mine and we split it 50/50. Thats a good deal for me as we only have 1 horse and 2 small Jerseys. We would like to buy a couple more steers and if I could keep all the hay I would be able to do that.

Any Ideas!!!

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

HappyTexan — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:09:24 GMT

Howdy folks. Luker here who decided to register to reply to this.

There's a place here in Texas that sells small haying equipment.
Here's the link. Pretty impressive. You might want to contact them to see if there's any dealers in your area.

Once I get my bigger place I plan to get one of them small square balers.

http://smallfarminnovations.com/home.html

http://www.sheepscreek.com/rural/haying.html

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

wallsostone — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:55:34 GMT

We do that here with everyday hay balers. it's just scrap hay.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Farmtruckerboy — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:54:27 GMT

I have seen on the farmers channel on my TV and one of the shows shows farmers using a round hay baler for making small round bails for mulch down in the south.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Mbrook — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:40:15 GMT

one thing I disagree with...

larger tractors and equipment are more fuel effective than small.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

p. horton — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:20:29 GMT

Something all small-scale farmers should be aware of is that there are WALK-BEHIND options for small farming equipment, which are common in Europe for the small mountain-side farms they operate there...but virtually unheard of here. Italy produces some of the best small-scale agricultural equipment available, and there are importers and dealers of the Italian walk-behind tractors and implements in the USA. And YES, there IS a round haybaler and a combo hayrake/tedder (and a bale wrapper for haylage or silage production as well) for the walk-behind tractors, as well as sickle bar and disc mowers. For new equipment, the cost outlay is significantly less than for 4-wheel tractor haying systems, and the efficiency of the walk-behind tractors is incredible...much less fuel is used (especially on diesel models) because you're not burning a bunch of fuel moving tons of steel around the field...and also the maneuverability and ability to safely handle very steep slopes is very impressive. For haying operations of 20 acres and less, these should be considered a viable option. The leading dealership for these machines seems to be Earth Tools in Kentucky; they ship all over the USA and Canada and, as research on the internet will quickly reveal, have an impressively good reputation for service backup, even at long distances.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

medowbrook — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:41:11 GMT

I think the organic movement will die due to the fact that you can not have everyone farming organic, and still have enough other kinds of farmers to vilify. If the public were totally educated, and all the food was organic, then organic farming would loose profits do to free enterprise.

Also, if the ideas behind organic farming turned out to be wrong, and all the trouble we blame on our food supply did not change, then what???

If women still developed earlier and people still had troubles, what would we blame it on then?

Kind of reminds me of the street hustler with the 3 cards on a table race'n out off before the mark finds out he was taken.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

medowbrook — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:37:31 GMT

Anyone can do what they want. but keep it real.
I know many who farm like you and I..then when the mandatory work is done they do the draft horse thing. but it's not like they want to do 20 acres a day with a horse. Horses don't always want to do as they are told.... and it's not as if a man can just come home on a horse and go in the house.

And I've never had to feed with my tractor when it wasn't doing work....and it's never kicked me.

I see a lot of this sort of stuff going on with another program a friend of mine used to attended every summer.

He paid $500 to go stay in an old farm house with several other folks for a week. His biggest thrills were getting up at dawn, eating a big meal... stuff about lemon aid and lots of sun..&. how well they slept.

They mowed with scythe, gathered eggs milked by hand and so on.
I guess if the world wants to pay me a few grand a week to sleep in the shed with no electric, live on cheep high fat/carb food and work like crazy....why not. I don't know if I could cash the check with a strait face.

Well Maybe PT Barnum was right???

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:05:42 GMT

Without question, the American people have a very fickle diet and like new things. I really thought organic farming might actually stick around for awhile, but it seems that the American people have grown bored with it, and certainly have no intention to buy it when the economy is headed south.

Will it come back?

I doubt it. We (as a society) tend to like new things and ways of doing things. I think you are actually onto the next fad Meadowbrook and I have said this for awhile. The next farming fad will be no fuel farming. People just as you say...who use horses and other non-powered equipment to produce food. It will certainly enable the small scale farmer to have a niche market and sell food at rather inflated prices. There is nothing wrong with that, a niche is a great way to set yourself apart, but I have no interest in changing my farm plan to take advantage of the latest farm fad.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:57:09 GMT

Sue...you would be surprised to learn that I raise grass fed lamb too. The key lies in the fact that lambs can be raised from birth to slaughter in 200 days. That means the lambs can be born on hay/new pasture and about the time they reach slaughter age, they have not touched grain or corn.

For me (where corn grows as high as an elephant's eye) I can give my breeding ewes corn in the winter when its cold and they really need the calories, (or what they call "energy" in livestock terms). In fact when its really cold, like when it hit -45.2 degrees this past winter, I gave the sheep plenty of corn to make it through the night. The extra calories really help give their stomachs something to digest and so it pumps up their internal heaters. Either way, my ewes are not being sold as meat so I can feed them corn and still ethically sell "grass fed lamb".

I actually fear listeroisis the most, which sheep are VERY susceptible too, and of which comes from improperly ensiled corn silage. But as I said before...corn does well here so you use what you got. In your case, I don't blame you for not feeding it. Like anything, corn is just an option to the winter feed dilemma. As you can tell from my posts, my ultimate goal is to push winter grazing to the absolute max..pretty brazen when temps hit -45.2 below without windchill factored in.

Here is the proof...

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

medowbrook — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:38:03 GMT

the anti corn thing seems to have taken a nose dive since the corn fuel bubble busted. Living were Draw and I are, a bit of fat would be wise for any stock in the cold. And since the new organic move includes an icy barn and leaving stock outside, they will need it.

now if someone had lots of time, and land and wanted to be that small scale, then why not do it all by hand. If you are going to have a truck patch, cool. get the small tractor, Kabota whatever, but if you have tons of time and rely want to be earthy, then do the whole thing by hand.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Sue Weaver — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:06:26 GMT

Very neat!

We feed very few concentrates, preferring a grass-based diet and couldn't grow corn on these rocks if we wanted to. I don't believe I've seen a corn field since leaving Minnesota (keeping in mind the farthest I've been from home was 200 miles and going south at that).

My sheep and goats love corn (I've come to the conclusion corn is goat candy) but feeding it makes me uneasy due to the strong anti-corn stance (due to the possible presence of mycotoxins) at the meat goat lists. Just when I start feeling comfortable again, someone's goats go belly up due to eating infected corn.

I do feed it to my dairy does since both are picky eaters and they give more milk when there is some whole corn in their diet--it makes them happy but me nervous.

Sue

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 08:32:53 GMT

Sue, just to be clear, when I ran the numbers on that corn, I did so using small farmer, small scale (1 acre of corn) numbers based on the needs of my sheep. I was pretty much trying to compare buying hay and putting up my own corn. The reason is simple; I have the equipment to put up corn but I cannot put up my own hay. I think what would really surprise people is that they don't need a lot of equipment to put up a small plot of corn.

Rototiller
Chainsaw
Small chipper

These would work, and many people have garden tractors and stuff that makes these tasks even easier.

I ran the numbers and corn beats hay hands down. Those were based on using retail costs too like seed you can get off the internet in reasonable quantities. I actually would like to isolate myself from the dairy farm as much as possible, and this year I intended to actually go out and plant an acre for my sheep. In the end I decided putting that spot into pasture instead of corn was better, but next year I would like to really grow my own small plot of corn.

The average sheep requires 12 pounds of corn per day, so one acre of corn would feed a flock of 25 sheep for an entire winter season (based on Maines 150 day forage requirement). That is based on 100% corn consumption which is not really ideal. A 40% corn/60% grass silage diet is what my sheep nutritionist recommends (yes I actually have one). That means that one acre plot would reduce my winter feed bill by 50% for a 50 sheep flock. To me it really makes sense. Spend a $180 bucks, grow an acre of corn and cut my feed bill by 40% at least. That puts my hay bill at 60% no matter if I buy every bale, or use my grass ground to put up the remainder of the bales...or better yet...use it to put up grass silage.

In short, I could build a ½ acre corn plot, and buy 18 bales of hay to feed a flock of 25 for the winter.

Or

Build a ½ acre plot of corn, buy a flail chopper, build an inexpensive bunker and use another 4½ acres of hay ground to put up grass silage and feed a flock of 25 sheep for the winter season and be 100% self sufficient

or

Use a combination of a small plot of corn, put up some silage and really try to push the envelope of winter grazing both at the beginning of winter and at the beginning of spring to reduce my forage needs to the bare minimum.

I probably lost a lot of people on this, but maybe it will make sense. You simply need X amount of feed to make it through the winter. Figuring out ways to get that feed may mean using multiple crops like corn/grass. It does not have to be hay and in fact, every time I pencil it out, corn is the cheapest option.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

medowbrook — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 08:06:22 GMT

hhmm,

Draw I think I would rather put a 8 year old in the tractor before I put a 50 year old with lots of cash in the seat. Here is why.

As kids, do you remember ride'n with your father on the tractor? we were learning before we could drive. And I know I was scared a little and dragged a corn field at a snails pace, partly because it was grandfather's tractor, not a rental or joe blow's tractor.

But a CEO with the money, well he's a little more daring. He paid me and it's a tractor, they are tough right? Half the world can't even change a tire and I just don't think I'd put that kind of client in the seat of a tractor that cost as much as a house. That's why the family equipment business won't rent to home owners. But those people actually think we'll rent them a rock truck.

I Think you are spot on about what could come of all this.
This is a place were we can come up with all kids of ideas. But we first must have a need. A need makes us want to go looking, start inventing. Tinker toys are not needs. They are wants...

there are many ways to make a small farm more effective, I shy from the word profitable.... but that means more effective iron and use of time.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

medowbrook — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 07:52:54 GMT

well Sue as someone who is a capitalist,
I can say that even the people who DON't Count change, are not wanting to be seen as such these days.

In the stone business it's all about bling...it's like selling jewels. " Loot at what I can throw my money away on." The sales angle was always, my credentials, the people I'd worked for ect. Not on skills, what I can do, but who I'd worked for. Then they would brag how much it costs.

But now, that group is as popular as AIG.

this is the great part.
Those who truly want to do something, know something... want the real deal. They don't want to just look at it, or play with it.. those who want in now seem to have things more in line with productivity.

and that's not what those smaller things are about.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 07:27:30 GMT

Hey Cox,

Why don't you try to find a used baler that is self powered? I have seen plenty around here that are run by a small Wisconsin engine. The haying contractor who borrows my tractor...and the Amish who borrowed my tractor all of last year...both had hay balers driven by their own engines. In those cases they used my small 25 hp Kubota to pull it. The Kubota was more then enough tractor because it was just pulling the baler and the haywagon...the self-contained engine ran the baler's PRO needs.

In that case...you use the tractor you got and I doubt a used self-powered square baler would set you back by 18K.

On another note, you could use a flail chopper and just put up grass silage instead? The cost of building a low tech bunker and buying the flail chopper would certainly be under 18K I would think. You may or may not be able to sell silage though to others if livestock are few and far between.

I don't have all the answers for you by the way, I am just trying to think of other options that may be less expensive, yet doable.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

CoxFamily farm — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 06:35:30 GMT

Well I wished Drawbar that you were around so that I could get you to bale they hay. But in this area the biggest farmer is chicken houses as high as 4 or 8 or 12 per group of super houses. Most farmers do not raise cows or hay the ones that do use it as a tax write off. And the few who raise both to make extra money are so busy they do not want to cut anybody eases hay. Also in the 12 miles it takes me to get to the small town where my real job is. I see close to 50 fields some as small as 2 acres some as large a 100 that are left to grow up. So thier is not any great option here to get hay baled used to be a great summer job for kids with round bale now thier is only 2 or 3 that do that. And on the small equipment I agree it is more economic to bale big. But this is what I have run into after checking prices. I was leaning to buy the hesstons 5134 it has a bale size of 39" x 36-52" or about 400 to 850 lb bale that I thought I could bale some of these people un used field and sell to help off set the cost, I could make bales from small to decent sized to sale. But I got qoutes back yesterday on tractors. I needed at least 30 hp pto tractor to run it and if I ever wanted to run a square baler I needed a 35 hp pto. I like kubotas, looking at new tractors a 35 hp pto tractor is $22,100 with loader and the 5134 is $12,900 for a total is $35,000. I all ready have a B7800 that is new and almost paid off. Plus a new 6 ft sickle and a rack that we used with my father in laws big ford and JD square baler. But to use the ford tractor and baler I have to work around my in laws. I would love to have equipment of my own. Three by three bale are probably to small but right now I could get a small baler for 18k or pay 35k for the two big units.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 03:04:56 GMT

I guess I got to get into this agritourism thing Sue. If we are okay at putting a 5 year old into a 400 hp tractor, you know we have no issues with putting a small scale hobby farmer in the cab. If we could get enough of them together we might be able to get our fields tilled without spending much money on labor. I bet they would be smiling too. (LOL)

As a side note, the larger the tractors, the easier they are to operate. That is why such young kids can operate these things. Its the equivalent of sitting in your recliner with a joystick operating a video game. Heck if you snap on the GPS you don't even have to steer. It doesn't get much easier then that.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 02:58:50 GMT

I understand the emotional attachment to the small farm equipment idea, but I would be darned if I would farm at a loss. I can understand the homesteader who does not really care that his 5 beef cows cost more to produce then going to the store and buying meat from the butcher, because that meat is something THEY raised. I understand that, and know the quality is better, but for a hobby farmer that is looking for some sort of profit, to spend 18K on a baler just seems silly to me.

We have big equipment I realize, but its really not that expensive. Our 400 hp tractor we call Big Blue pulls a 33 foot wide disc harrow which costs 45K. That means that mini baler costs just about half of what that big disc costs. I just don't see it Sue.

I still respect the smaller farmers that buy this stuff though. As I said before, they can do other things with their time and money and yet they are out there everyday doing what they love...which is agriculture. They do it simply because they love it. Me, I do it for a living and because its my family's heritage. But to do it for the sheer love...good for them. I just think we would be better off if more people tried to do small scale farming at a profit...can you imagine the low cost innovations that would come from that? I know a pipe dream at this time. :(

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Sue Weaver — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:02:16 GMT

No! No hard feelings. It's academic to me since we buy our hay anyway.

But look at it as entertainment for folks who can afford the equipment. Having worked the hay wagon and hay mow myself, haying doesn't equate with entertainment to me--but honestly, look how many people buy small tractors. Just about everyone in our region who can afford one has at least one. Why? The owners can go about doing, in a small way, what you guys do for a living. They have neither the land nor the desire to own large-scale equipment.

Actually, that's the case here, though there is no small tractor in our future. John has Charlene and she is big (to me). I'd love to have something smaller that I felt comfortable working with.

Now you and I may have to count our pennies but not everyone has to do that. It makes more sense (at least to me) to encourage someone to spend big bucks on a fancy little tractor and smallish haying equipment than on a Farrari or a big, honking boat, both of which would burn gas too and the guy would still have to buy hay.

Makes sense to me. :o)

Sue

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

medowbrook — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:17:00 GMT

And by small equipment, I'm thinking 200 lb round bails wet and tractors that you could jump over.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

medowbrook — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:11:59 GMT

I'm just asking

But why would someone say on one hand they they want to go green...have cars that go further on less gas, thus producing less fumes/carbon.

and then encourage the smaller iron that produces less the amount of energy used ?

I know I'm a pro farmer, but time is time and money is money and if someone wants to save time and have money to farm tomorrow....

One lesson of farming is to have an earth and money left for later.

Big hugs, no hard feelings..

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Sue Weaver — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:59:30 GMT

Well, I agree with what you say 100% but you guys are full-time farmers farming large acreages. This stuff is built for hobby farmers.

Some hobby farmers have the means to buy this equipment (believe me, I can write about it but could never afford to buy it) and want the satisfaction of doing things around the farm for themselves; cost is not the issue.

It comes back to the thing that Hobby Farms is written for hobby farmers and by examining the ads, it's evident that many readers are affluent.

That's where this equipment comes in.

Sue

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:00:56 GMT

I put a pretty sharp pencil to every aspect of my sheep operation and really try to figure out the best return on investment. I have run the numbers a lot and to be honest with you, my lowest numbers always come from feeding corn in terms of forage.

Despite the cost of tilling, seed, applying manure and harvest, the sheer tonnage of corn per acre (23 tons) ends up being a much lower cost then that of hay since it has a lower tonnage per acre (4 tons). Since I have sheep I cannot feed silage to the lambs, but for what little those lambs eat, and for such a short time, (birth to sufficient pasture height) buying a very few haybales from a hay farmer makes more sense then buying a baler of my own. As I hinted at before, if I am to buy anything small scale, it would be in the way of a chopper...preferable interchangeable between grass/corn.

Now this is from someone that has quite a few acres to grow grass on. I would think if a small farmer was really pressed for acreage, growing 23 tons of feed per the acre instead of 4 really starts to make sense. We got to stop thinking rolled up, crushed dry grass (hay) for winter feed if we are really going to get efficient on any sort of small scale.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:47:16 GMT

I have no issue with smaller sized equipment Meadowbrook and I understand why you stay small. We are dairy farmers and just cannot afford too. WE must produce more and more milk at a reduced price (set by the government) or we just won't make it. Our larger equipment pencils out because we get a check every two weeks too, and thus it works like this:

Dairy farming is high tech, but great cash flow
Beef farming is low tech, but poor cash flow

Neither is right or wrong. You can use the low tech side of things to really save some money on smaller equipment, while we have to use the good cash flow to make payments on really big equipment.

But this is where I can answer both your question Meadowbrook and kind of disagree with you Sue...we do a lot of custom farming which is something I see getting bigger and bigger in the future. WE need big equipment to provide feed for our farm (1000+ cows) and all the others that want us to put up their feed as well. We need to get things done...fast!

But for smaller farmers the law of Economics of Scale just cannot be ignored. As much as smaller farms would love to do things for themselves, it just doesn't make economic sense to pay for a $18,000 baler that puts up a small bale. The cost per pound to put up winter feed ill just be too great. Plus the real benefit of a round bale is not having to invest in hay storage for them. Some loss is inevitable on a round bale, so the smaller round bales would mean you would lose a greater percentage of the hay. I doubt many smaller farmers can afford the hay loss, or want to invest in expensive hay storage. Instead smaller farmers have other options that don't require such an outlay in cash all at once.

For the short term I see people reverting to custom farmers like us who have the equipment and economy of scale already in place...or going to custom farmers who can spread out the cost over a broader number of small farmers as customers.

In the long term I foresee more winter grazing. Getting the livestock to harvest their own forage is hard to beat in terms of effeciency. I see GM grass seed that can tolerate harsher and more northern climates as being able to really push this envelope. (Right now we are devising systems to feed our livestock around the feed we have, in the future I see designing the feed to remain until the livestock gets there and harvests it).

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Sue Weaver — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:47:46 GMT

These machines have been in production in Europe and Japan (where bigger is rarely thought to be better) for many years. After researching this column, as 'farms' continually become smaller in size (a la hobby farms), I think they'll catch on here.

Sue

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

medowbrook — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:10:08 GMT

that's one thing I just can't see spending money on.

smaller iron like ours is fine, as compareied to yours draw...

But a rinky-dink thing that will take forever to bail 2 acres, think of what you could be doing? Sooner or later someone will say..

I'm not getting anything done.

And if you have a day job, and hay is the game, well that is not going to wait until Saturday. If you have hay down, is the boss at your real job going to say, oh go on home??

Then when the hobby farmer in question is home, is he going to be able to get it all done by dark? From the other post, can you still get 2 weeks away from the farm if you spend all your time off in the hay field?

If it were me, I'd worry about parts BIG TIME!

I also think a time will come when they don't allow everyone to just farm, but save recorces for the production people.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Drawbar — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:08:27 GMT

And that is why I like Hobby Farms, they hit that exact niche that no one else touches upon. I can't wait to read the article/issue.

Now on the flip side of things, on the dairy farm, where we have spent a million bucks to be efficient, the size of the equipment is really starting to cause problems. Around here a field may only be 2 acres in size and have a gap between two rock walls 15 feet wide. That is a problem when your 16 foot haybine "folds up" to 17 feet, your merger "collapses" into road travel at 17 feet and the 33 foot disc is still 20 feet wide going down the road.

Yeah we are accomplishing work at ½ a gallon per acre, but at this rate there are a lot of marginal and small fields that we just won't be able to work. The only answer is to make the fields bigger, or no longer use them.

To answer the last persons question, I would be concerned about parts availability in 3 years time...especially when spending that much money.

RE: VERY SMALL HAY EQUIPMENT

Sue Weaver — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:51:52 GMT

The Tools of the Trade column in the July-August Hobby Farms (due out any day) is about "Tools for Tight Places" and includes some info about small-scale haying equipment. If I still had the rough draft in this computer I'd give you a preview--but don't and can't. :o(

Sue